New Orleans Season Finale Part 2 (TCGP S3 E21)

# Swell AI Transcript: TCGP S3 E21 Part 2 Finale

Jeffrey:
Well, here we are, John, high atop New Orleans, overlooking the entire city on the balcony of Café Amélie, and all I can say is, laissez les bons temps rouler.

Jonathan:
Yes, exactly. We're right in the midst of the French Quarter, and we can't be... we're more than thrilled to be able to share the second part of our Season 3 finale with you all at home. We've been here for three years straight, and we love coming back to New Orleans. It's an amazing, amazing city. It really is.

Jeffrey:
Nothing will keep us away.

Jonathan:
No, nothing at all. So we've got a terrific lineup of guests that we're super excited to share with you, and it's coming up when?

Jeffrey:
Right now.

Jeffrey:
Right now.

Jeffrey:
Coming up on the Cocktail Guru podcast, we will interview Mike Winters, Karina Planeta, Alan Katz, Selena Perez, Shane Fitzharris, and Jean-Francois Bonete. Stay with us. Here we are, we're rolling along here at Tal's The Cocktail.

Jonathan:
We are, it's been a really great time so far. Yes, and the food. Yes, we had some breakfast at Ruby Slipper. Yes, we did, we had a great Southern breakfast. And you were noting the hospitality down here in New Orleans, and people are just so nice, you know? Especially the workers, the hospitality workers are really, really sweet.

Jeffrey:
There's nothing better than Southern hospitality. That's right. Yeah. Love it. Love the people here, love the food. everything to like about New Orleans until.

Jonathan:
And you really rocked out partying last night.

Jeffrey:
Oh, yes.

Jonathan:
Really?

Jeffrey:
Really? Well, I did because we went to the Kemptoliza tequila event, which was fantastic. That's right. So I had my wonderful old fashioned cocktail using Kemptoliza tequila and had some great food along with it. And then that was enough for me went back to the cell and went to sleep.

Jonathan:
Well, let's I'd love to bring on our special guest for this episode, one of our special guests. And we met not too long ago. And he has this beautiful tequila brand called Kintalisa tequila. So here we are, Mr. Mike Winters. Hello, thank you for having me. Our pleasure.

Jeffrey:
Mike Winters is CEO and founder of Kintalisa tequila. I am which is a totally brand of tequila. I've been drinking this wonderful product called tequila for 50 years or so. But this is completely different from any of the other tequilas that I've ever had. Thank you for several reasons, which I think you will.

Jonathan:
Yes, please. So, yes, first of all, tell us what is unique about King Thelisa tequila. But then also, well, no, before we do that, we always ask this question to our guests. What is your desert island trick?

Mike:
my desert Island drink. Yes. Um, alcohol. I mean, I mean, honestly, um, I don't drink anything other than coffee, tequila and water. So I don't really, uh, I mean, beer very, very rarely. Um, I couldn't, uh, last time I had a soda was probably 16 years ago. So, so I would say probably just water. Maybe like coconut. I'm super boring. Yeah. Coconut water would be great.

Jeffrey:
The third gas. We've had three years who has designated.

Mike:
I think coconut water is a good one with, or maybe, you know, lemon water would be great.

Jonathan:
So, so I'd love to, yes, of course, we'll talk about King's Lisa tequila, but I'd like to lead up to that. And we met at the, um, access live, um, WSWA convention, and you were participating in, um, this kind of. Industry shark tank type of thing. Uh, the, um, brand battle and your brand one brand battle champion is one the big prize you pitched to some industry folks. Can you tell me what was that journey? How did you get from? How did you get to winning this shark tank type of thing and kind of blowing up? And then where did you start from? How did it kind of become birthed?

Mike:
Yeah, I mean, that was, it's funny, because it seems like a long road, but it actually went really, really quickly. You know, I couldn't, you know, had the idea of King Delisa and built that for about a year and a half through R&D, just trying to figure out exactly how to do it, making sure that we say, you know, we're true to what we wanted to come across, we wanted to be an additive free product, organic, self sustainable. So there was a lot of things in King's that we needed to work out. And again, having it never been done before, we obviously had to find the best solution for that. We built a team. I had a great team that was building up, that was coming up, that was really helping us kind of grow and kind of come up with different ideas and concepts as we started adding the juice. Obviously finding a good master distiller. There's a lot. And, you know, the reality is when we got into the WSWA brand battle, that was something that our PR team really pushed us for. I never heard of it before. I had no idea what it was. And I kind of went back and forth on whether or not I should do it. And what happened was kind of funny. It landed on my family vacation in Montana. We were skiing with my kids. My mom did something they do every single year. And I'm like, man, like family is number one. And I'm on the fence of like, do I commit? Do I like, just say, no, I can't do this. But I was urged by, you know, I spoke to a few friends that are in the industry that are that are founders themselves that had been a part of it. And they said, Hey, if you have the opportunity to take it, so It was a quick, not even 24 hours. I flew from Montana down to Vegas, did the damn thing, as I like to say, and then came back to the family vacation and found my family on a hiking trail when I came back. So it was great.

Jonathan:
And the journey to there, I mean, what kind of work goes into starting a startup brand like this? And obviously, you were saying you find the right distillery, you find the right correct, the right distillery, but you started formulating things early on.

Mike:
Yeah, so I came into this industry as an importer originally seven years ago, I started importing tequilas, specifically tequila. You know, I didn't even like tequila when I became an importer at first. Yeah, I really didn't care for it too much. I think it's the same story that a lot of people had, you know, they had too many, you know, maybe one too many days in Cancun or whatever the case may be, or college days. They had the right tequila. Correct. Correct. Yeah. Or they had too much. Too much. It's usually too much and the wrong. Yeah. So I think for me, it was this, whenever the first tequila that I started bringing on, it had some additives in it, but it was a, wow, this is different. This is like a bourbon almost, a whiskey. It doesn't even really taste like the tequila that I know. But just by having a curiosity by nature, I dove into this rabbit hole of tequila and trying to discover new additive-free tequilas and kind of what it was. The first additive-free tequila I had was Fortaleza, and I was ruined at that point. Um, so that kind of just went so, so good. So good. So I went down this rabbit hole, but you know, I have a love for coffee and I'm now the new found love for tequila. And I wanted to find a way, well, geez, you know, how do I bring these notes into this world without using additives? Um, so I did a lot of research, a lot of digging. I hired the right patent attorneys to kind of dig through. Has anyone ever done this before and come to find not a single spirit in the world has ever aged their product in a coffee barrel. And I thought that was like crazy. So for me, it was one of those things where I had to really just, all right, now I'm going to dive into it. I'm never going to let go. I got to see what's going on and just really just discover what, what I can be. Um, so that's what started the, the path of, uh, trying to figure out how to do this.

Jeffrey:
And that's one of the major factors that makes can do is a unique. The barrels that you use for aging are seasoned with Mexican coffee. Correct. Correct. Correct. Yeah. The taste comes right through. It's absolutely delicious. Right. It doesn't overpower the taste of the Adobe at all. It just complements and blends beautifully.

Mike:
And I think that's the special thing about, you know, so through all our R&D, you can ask, I made this in my kitchen, right? So we had like trams filled with one bean with two beans, three beans. And no matter what, if liquid tequila hits coffee, it gets ruined, it becomes coffee, even if it's a half a bean. And, you know, if you pour tequila over coffee grinds, it's destroyed instantly. It's just terrible. Um, so it had to be aged and we actually, when we first started working, I was using the small one liter barrels. Um, for those that don't know, four and a half days of a barrel age equals to one month in a real barrel. So it was like, I was able to speed site super speed aging and really kind of dive into that without having to spend so much time trying to figure out the actual processes. Um, so actually use tequila. Ocho was our, was the tequila that we use was Blanco. Yeah, and that's what we used as a little bench mark and started aging it. We switched over into the Reposado of Ocho and just started aging that. Found that Reposado was definitely the way to go. And we started experimenting with different cold brews to season the barrels. And obviously, naturally, we wanted everything to come from Mexico. Chiapas is known for their best coffee in the region. It's very low acidity, not too bitter, dark chocolatey notes, fruity. Found that it was the best coffee for our process, for sure.

Jonathan:
And and you partnered with a brewery. Is that all right? That made cold brew, and then would release the cold brew? Would they sell that cold brew? And then you would use those barrels?

Mike:
No, actually, so the brew doesn't make cold brew. We make cold brew in their brewery.

Jonathan:
So you make the cold brew in their brewery. And then what do you do with the cold brew?

Mike:
So unfortunately that gets wasted, but a little fun fact on our first lot, I actually made all the cold brew myself by hand in 50 gallon tanks in my warehouse in Florida. We got all the roaster, our local roaster who helped us patent, you know, helped us work on the actual roast. Um, still to this day, uh, we, we, we aged all those barrels in my warehouse and we then poured all the clean the barrels out and then we shipped those barrels to Mexico seasoned. Um, and it was, you know, that's, That's a lot. It's a lot. I've got videos at one in the morning of me, you know, stirring cold brew. But, you know, the reality was for me, it was trying to make sure that I, you know, was able to do every process and every step myself. I needed to know what it took.

Jonathan:
And is there something that you I mean, I like talking to entrepreneurs like like me, like us. Is there something that you would do differently had you known what you know now?

Mike:
Um, no, not really. I mean, to be honest with you, I love everything that we've done. Everything's been a learning process. I mean, I think when you go into this, this world, right? Uh, the only way you grow is by making mistakes. So like, to me, the mistakes were part of what, you know, you know, who we are. It's what we've become. We've learned even like tells the cocktail, you know, this is our first time doing it. We're going bigger. We go home. We come in here, we do it, and at the end, we'll reevaluate and go, okay, what did we learn from this? What was the great takeaways? What are the things we could have done better? What are things we maybe will never do again? But either way, it's still a great conversation and go, hey, this was awesome, or hey, that one didn't work out so well. We could have done it a little differently next time, or hey, we're gonna scratch that all together.

Jonathan:
Right, so you like course correct. 100%. Which is, I think for entrepreneurs, not to get down on yourself if you make a mistake, but just immediately be like, okay, next step, hustle on, what could I do better for the next time? And that's really, I mean, and right? Wouldn't you say so? Yes, you've you taught me that you have a great entrepreneurial mind and attitude.

Jeffrey:
So I would say you have better one than I was never considered myself an entrepreneur at all.

Jonathan:
I mean, I got it from somewhere.

Jeffrey:
Well, maybe your your mother, maybe mom. There is one item in the line of Kentalisa. It is a riposado tequila. Reposado. There's just one.

Jonathan:
Right. That's right.

Jeffrey:
Another element that makes this.

Jonathan:
You're only, you're only producing a Reposado.

Mike:
Just a Reposado. Yep. It's a two year, it's age a total of five, five months, two months in American whiskey. Then we finish in those three months of our coffee barrels. And that's the uniqueness. We like to say this is a Reposado that sips like an Iñigo, but it has the receptility of a Blanc. It does. Same like an Iñigo.

Jonathan:
Well, thank you, Mike. It's been really great to see your journey and to be able to be a part of it. Yeah. Best of luck. All right. Thank you so much for having me.

Mike:
Cheers to you, Mike. Thanks, guys.

Jonathan:
So we're going right along to our next guest. This is this is great. I love it.

Jeffrey:
What did you grow up listening to?

Jonathan:
I know it's true. You know, waking up, you know, waking up, waking up in the mornings, you would play classical music, and it would be Mozart, mostly. Well, a lot. A lot of Mozart. And these are some Mozart liqueurs. These are products that I've worked with for several years now. And Jenny and I go way back. This is Jenny Manger and Carina Planetta, of course, with Mozart liqueurs. And I just want to get into it. I want to know a little bit more. I want our audience to know a little bit more about the brands.

Jeffrey:
Yes, but I want them to know also that Carina is the international brand manager for Mozart. Thanks for introducing me. Thank you. Great pleasure. Thank you for being here, Karina and Jenny.

Jonathan:
We appreciate it. Karina, can you tell us a little bit about what the impetus is with starting a brand like this? How long has it been around? Why was it brought into the market?

Carina:
Yeah, we started producing the Mozart chocolate liqueur in the distillery, which is based in Salzburg in 1979. That's when I was born.

Jeffrey:
They did a big celebration for me.

Carina:
Yeah, now we know.

Jonathan:
It's amazing. Thank you.

Carina:
Who inspired us for the product.

Jonathan:
Thanks for that.

Carina:
It's a great success story we have with Mozart, internationally as well. And yes, when we started really focusing on producing chocolate liquor, it was in 1979. And since then, each of the bottles are still produced in the distillery. So now and then we like We like having their family team. Most of the people are employed in more than 30 years. So our production manager, also the maître chocolatier. So it's really nice always when I'm going there and to meet them and to talk to them. It's like a family because there are Yeah, most of the parts are done by hand still now, even if we are investing in machines. But this is such a smart and nice thing about Mozart because it's a handcrafted product still. And this is really, really nice. And we started with our classic cream chocolate. This was the first flavor. Then we came with the white and the dark. So basically, we covered all the basic flavors like you know from the chocolate industry as well. And this is how we produce our liqueurs as well. So the basic ingredients are like you see or you taste it in real chocolate and chocolate bars.

Jeffrey:
And the basic crème liqueur is made with Belgian chocolate.

Carina:
Is that true? Yeah, that's true. That's the special ingredient. Yeah. Well done. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's something we're really focusing on using only great ingredients of high quality. Still, we're sourcing our cocoa beans from West Africa. We have the vanilla from Madagascar, and we have a cooperation there as well with Vanilla Aid. So this is also sustainable and fair trade. And then, of course, some special ingredients like caramel or, as you said, for the cream on the budget, chocolate. So really high premium ingredients. And this is what the brand and the products are standing for. So great premium liquor.

Jonathan:
And Jenny, you work with a wonderful portfolio of spirits, products, the offices of Morasha Beverages, based in Cedar Knolls, New Jersey. And when did you take on Mozart in the US? How have you seen it grow? You know, how are people using Mozart in your experience?

Jenny:
Well, it used to exist in the US quite a while ago. I would say, I don't know, maybe it's 20 years ago. And then we got it at Marussia Beverages around 2017, 2018 when I first started. And I was, it was the best day of my work career when I showed up for work and saw pallets of Mozart in the warehouse. Because I used to travel a lot to Austria And my husband and I before, and I didn't even know it was coming to Marussia. I was surprised. We would bring from the duty free shop three bottles at a time because you couldn't get in the U.S. anymore. And so when I found it in the office in the warehouse, I was over the moon, took a picture, sent it to my family. And now I can bring home souvenirs from Austria instead of bottles of milk.

Jeffrey:
Yes, and I have been consuming and enjoying Mozart, Cream of the Girl, ever since it was first introduced into the United States. I'm that old. Yes, you are.

Carina:
Do you remember when you first tried it? Was it in like Neat or in a cocktail?

Jeffrey:
No, no. This was years before the cocktail revolution began. So it was Neat. I remember drinking at Neat and I probably attended a Mozart cream liqueur tasting. Yeah.

Carina:
Interesting.

Jonathan:
And Jenny, on the marketing side, what are some of the initiatives with Mozart, of course?

Jenny:
Well, we do a lot of tastings. We do really well with the tastings in store. And we're here at Tails. We have a lot of activations happening today. We have your happy hour coming up.

Jonathan:
That's right. Yeah. You know, I Jenny and I are in touch several times a year with various events that we do with the cocktail guru and you guys have been so kind and generous and very supportive of what we're doing and I love that and it makes me a huge. I was a fan at the beginning, but now it's kind of made me a lifelong.

Jeffrey:
How can you not be a fan once you taste Mozart creamy curl and the dark chocolatey curl the coke the new coconut. We haven't yet.

Jonathan:
I can't wait. So I'm pouring some of the coconuts here. You guys have had it before obviously.

Jenny:
And has as have I. And what's new about this flavor too is that it's made with coconut milk. So it's lactose free.

Jeffrey:
And is it coconut milk and white chocolate? Yeah, that's what combination. Yes. Well, cheers. Yeah.

Jonathan:
Yeah, I already had some. It's it's delicious. I mean, like it's it's that got that fresh pressed coconut and just, you know, a little hint of white chocolate.

Jeffrey:
But I love the balance that it's just that's fantastic. That's absolutely delicious. Yeah, I want one.

Jonathan:
And how did the new flavor come about? How did you decide on coconut? Did you have several different options, iterations, and then you chose this formula?

Carina:
Yeah, so when we are looking for new flavors, of course, we're looking at the market and looking at what the chocolate industry is doing. And we figured out that, of course, coconut is a trend. And now, last year as well, because I started to launch it in Europe last year already, and now in the US, So when we look for new flavors, we take the inspiration from the chocolate business and chocolate industry, and it's mainly on us. So it's just like a small tasting. We do them in our office or in Salzburg, and it's like the management or the team there, and we're tasting. And then we're going to say, okay, what could be the most important one or has the most potential for us? So, and I love coconut, so that's why I'm always requesting, like, could we please, and do, and now finally I have my coconut flavor here. Yes, so that's how it's really hands-on, actually. So when we are in favor of, like, coffee or coconut, so we're trying to experience then how we can combine all the ingredients and see with our Mitre Chocolatier how it could be blended. And then we say, okay, now let's go for it. And let's try and give it a try on the market.

Jonathan:
Well, what I love about all of the Mozart liqueurs is that they're really, um, they're not ployingly sweet. They're light, um, almost a touch refreshing, which you wouldn't really think of when you drink all that chocolate. You think that it's going to be gloppy and very heavy, and it's not, but it's not, it's just, it's, it's rich, decadent, but yet it's, it's light. And you know, this dark chocolate is impressive.

Jenny:
Oh, you should speak about the Mozarts. the little cafe that you have on the first floor of the Mozart.

Carina:
Oh, yeah, right. Yeah, there's something new and I'm excited about this. So we have the chance now to in Mozart's birth house in Salzburg. I can create like a spiritual home for the Mozart chocolate liquor because, you know, we have the production side and that's nice. But to get more like a spiritual home and more experimental surrounding. So that's why we have another chance to create a Mozart lounge and this is really, really nice. It's something special. It will be something special to be in Salzburg to have a Mozart chocolate lounge at Mozart's.

Jeffrey:
Oh my gosh. Salzburg is one of the most beautiful places on earth and I have never been there.

Jonathan:
When is the next trip? You have to go. When is the next Mozart trip?

Carina:
Let us know what your calendar is. We would love to.

Jeffrey:
We will try to make it. That would be amazing.

Jonathan:
Yes. Well, you guys have been fantastic. Thank you so much for joining. I'm so glad we were able to sit down with you here in New Orleans at Tails. Yeah, can't wait for our happy hour later, and we're going to make some Mozart cocktails. You ready, Dad? Yeah, I'm ready.

Jeffrey:
Thank you, Clarita and Jenny. Thank you. Thank you.

Jonathan:
Well, our next guest is none other than- Next guest is a true legend. A true legend, Mr. Alan Katz. And Alan and I go pretty far back, as do you and Alan, dad. We go farther back. We do. But my relationship with Alan was very close, very quickly. And that is because when the U.S. Bartenders Guild in New York was just of formulating itself. We put together a board of directors of ragtag industry members. And I was, for some reason, given the role of president and you, my friend, Alan Katz, were my vice president. I do recall. Do you recall that? That was more than 20 years. That was like 20 years ago. Thanks for inviting me to the playground. Um, but that was, that was pretty crazy. Um, and you know, since then, well, obviously leading up to that, you were already an industry, um, legend, uh, but you for me, you started, um, formulating your own spirits and you got into distilling. Uh, and what was that? I'd love to know about that transition from, um, you know, working at Southern wine and spirits, which is, and you've been working there for. 20 almost 19 years. That's crazy. That's amazing. And you know, why? What made you think okay, I'm working for Southern now I kind of have a nice steady job, but I want to try to still experience there were two rational things which are rare in my mind.

Allen:
One was the creative outlet of making something simply on my own or in collaboration, but making something that was original. And the other was the concept of urban distilling. And like all of us, we'd had the privilege, privileges of visiting distilleries around the world. And for me, it was the first of several visits to Plymouth Gin. And it was thunderbolts for me to land in London, take the train down to Plymouth, and walk down the street with the curtain on it, and there's the distillery. I thought, oh, wow. And I couldn't pay attention for the next three days. My mind was only on where could this work logically in Brooklyn, where could it work in New York City, and I doodled, figuratively and literally, for several years around the creative concept of a distillery in New York City. And I started discussing it with close friends and they said, well, if it doesn't work, will you open one across the river in New Jersey or go back to my home state of Maryland or West Virginia? I said, no, I love living in New York City. I've now been living in New York City for 32 years. I'm going to see if this can work in the city itself. If it doesn't, I'll come up with something else. And it was those elements at a creative juncture that set me on the path and the idea having probably in our same time frame and certainly with Papa Pogash's immense influence on me in a vital moment in my lifetime in March of 2003 that set me off on this course of celebrating not only American cocktail culture, but a sense of originality in spirits.

Jonathan:
What was this? What was this moment? I'm totally unaware. No, I think we've we've talked about it before.

Allen:
We have. I mean, so March 2023 was the tribute to Jerry Thomas. Not 2020. Excuse me, 2003. Of course. Oh yes. March of 2005. Of course I remember that. And that was the first time that we met. It was probably 2002 and you're the primary supporter and sponsor of that cocktail.

Jeffrey:
I got Hennessy. I was with Moet Hennessy. I got Hennessy to sponsor that event.

Allen:
I recall the meetings in your office. Right. And it was a collaborative brainchild and I thought I knew something about Jerry Thomas i didn't really i'd gotten an old book at bonnie slotnik cookbooks yes of course i'll tell you i got a second edition bon vivant's companion for 25 and i thought let me try and make some recipes from this i didn't know what i was doing jiggers of that and ponies of this And I met Dave Wondrich and Sean Kelly, and we had the opportunity to come talk about it with you. And all of a sudden, that following early spring was such a momentous occasion that solidified my desire to find my place in our hospitality and trade community. New York Distilling Company is the output From that moment to today.

Jeffrey:
Wow. How do you feel about that? I feel great. I feel wonderful. It was a wonderful event. It was. I loved. meeting Alan and cavorting with all the other dignitaries of the spirits and cocktail industry. It was a great event. It was a watershed moment for me as well. It was a two hour cocktail party. Because it got me much more involved in cocktails than ever before because you had just... The tiny... I had just started bartending. In 2001, you had just started. Right. And this is only two years after that. Right. So and I was since ever since you started, I was getting more involved in cocktails, more interested in the topic. And then after this event, I started collecting cocktail books, just like Alan did. Alan did that before I did. But I found Jerry Thomas and Harry Johnson, other great 19th century authors. And that sent me on the way on the path to not destruction, but to the love, the road to the love of cocktails. And then you urged me on and you, I did, you inspired me to continue. I did go into even greater. Oh, yeah, that's very sweet. But now we have a wonderful drink here that we didn't have in the 19th century is called jaywalk rye. It is Wow.

Jonathan:
And we haven't tasted that yet. You recently had a big move with the with the distillery. And you moved out of the last space in Williamsburg and moved to a new spot, Jay Watt Distillery in Bushwick.

Allen:
In Bushwick, exactly. So just another 12, 15 minutes away. Williamsburg was our birthplace, if you will. It was a great home. and the confluence of typical business things the lease was coming up and their new fire department regulations around urban distilling and the truth is we needed more space in a positive way and so we were fortunate enough to find this new home about three times the size in bushwick and it just happens frankly to coincide with our preparations to launch jaywalk rye Uh, which has been otherwise 14 years in the making before we actually incorporated the business in its, uh, inception 14 years. How, how. Well, when we first started talking about the spirits that we wanted to make, that was solidified almost immediately. We knew we were going to focus on rye whiskey and gin. And one of the paramount goals was that we were going to make everything. And we thought to ourselves, sort of in a funny way, not as a throwaway, but would it be possible to see, to find if there were any varieties of rye that might happen to be native to New York State. And, you know, grains are commodities. You can buy it by 50 pound bags are by the tonnage. And you can find a variety of different grains, rye, wheat, corn, et cetera, all the things you would use to make whiskey. And we happened to develop a strong relationship with the Seed Savers Group at Cornell's College of Agriculture. And they identified a few select varieties of rye native to New York. And one in particular called Horton, is native to the late 17th century, wouldn't you know it, of Rye, New York. And that's where the town gets its name.

Jeffrey:
Wow. I don't know how many people knew that. No one, right?

Allen:
Wow. And if you've ever been or to Raleigh Playland. Yes, I have. There is a street perpendicular to the beach called Horton Street. Named for this family that helped found the township. I don't know if it's a township or a city, but help found Rye, New York, and they emigrated from Leicester, England, in the late 17th century. And I always sort of joke to myself, at least, they must have been a very religious family. They had a number of farms from present day Rye all the way out to Orient Point, which if someone's not familiar, is the end of Long Island that faces both Long Island Sound and the Atlantic Ocean. Yeah. And this was their family hybrid of Rye that they created here.

Jonathan:
Wow. And that's, this is the rye.

Allen:
This is that rye, and we got 10 seeds of that rye. And it's grown where? So we now grow it in the Finger Lakes, about six hours north of New York City, between Syracuse and Rochester.

Jonathan:
Because of the land.

Allen:
Well, that's where our farmer is.

Jonathan:
Okay. Yeah.

Allen:
Yeah. And he's, you know, he, Rick Peterson and his family had been really an integral part of this journey and this process. But from those 10 seeds that we got from Cornell 14 years ago, he planted them in a pot, as if you were putting it on your windowsill. And that pot led to a few pots, that led to a greenhouse test, that led to a field test, and it took five years to go from 10 seeds just to have enough to start distilling this whiskey.

Jonathan:
Wow, so you partnered with this farmer 14 years ago. Yeah. And you guys have just you've just been waiting.

Allen:
We're now essentially in a perpetual crop rotation from those 10 seeds to down about 250 acres that are planted on an annual basis of horten rye.

Jonathan:
Yeah. This is the bonded let's taste that so that we can get to the jaywalk rye.

Allen:
So tell us a little bit about the bondage. So the bondage is a seven year old rye. Of course, as you know, you know, the minimum age on a bonded or bottling bond spirit is four years. This is by our choosing seven years and by law bottled it up.

Jonathan:
Dan is contemplating the flavor.

Allen:
For me, old fashions, I use the straight rye for Manhattans and the Jaywalk heirlooms is a single barrel. And what are you using for aging? All American oak. Different cooperages, primarily Independence Day out of Missouri and also Kelvin out of Kentucky. But it's American oak and other types of oak? No, just American oak. I could easily say it's all Char III, but the truth is, from different cooperages, the quote unquote Char III has different activities going on over the times.

Jonathan:
And the jaywalk, which we have here now. Yeah, so they're all jaywalk walls. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Allen:
That's okay. This is the heirloom. and this is the cast strength single barrel so each barrel is its own unique stamp this one is 114.2 proof to me also interesting because our barrel entry proof for all of jaywalk is 115 So over seven years, there hasn't been a lot of variation and proof, just not even a whole degree from reduction from 115 to around 114.

Jonathan:
In this case, I just want before we before we go, because we're running out of time here. I love this view master, which How did you describe it?

Allen:
It's this is our bit of nostalgia. It's the story of jaywalking in seven slides. Oh, oh, look at that. So from the inception or creation of the Manhattan cocktail, to our agricultural interests, to the connotation of J-Walk being, you know, some rules are just made to be broken.

Jonathan:
New York rye, New York rules. I love it.

Jeffrey:
You're very playful. Yes. Thank you. But this Yeah, this is cast strength. It is correct.

Jonathan:
Yeah, it's delicious. And it's so great to see you and to be able to spend time with you. I'll be at short. But yeah, I mean, best of luck. We've been we've been huge fans of your products for so many years and of you yourself as a person. So thank you for joining us. Cheers. Wow. Sure. That was amazing.

Jeffrey:
Well, the hits just keep coming, John. Oh, yeah. This is incredible.

Jonathan:
Yeah, I know, I know. We've got a really delicious lineup of whiskeys from Great Jones Distillery and our special guest, Selena Perez, who is the master distiller. How are you? I'm good. Great to hear. How's your Tales of the Cocktail going?

Celina:
Yeah, it's been great.

Jonathan:
I love it here. Before we start out, we always ask our guests, what is your desert island cocktail or drink? Negroni. A Negroni? Good choice. I like it. Or a Boulevardier.

Celina:
Or a Boulevardier, yeah.

Jonathan:
I like that. Wow. I want to know about your a little bit about your background and how you kind of got to where you are today. Where are you from? What is the interest behind distilling? How did you get to become a master distiller?

Celina:
I guess I would use that term very loosely. I'm a head distiller, but master is sort of I feel like. Yes, head distiller. It's only because my association with master distillers in the past, they have a reverence that I feel like I'm not. So I guess I've always loved whiskey more than anything else in the world. Maybe dogs are like all about that. But I taught myself how to distill and I built a still my kitchen and I went in for a job interview at a whiskey distillery in Brooklyn and they hired me on the spot with a jar of whiskey that I made in my kitchen instead of bringing a resume. And it's like sort of been that process ever since.

Jeffrey:
That's a fascinating way to get a job.

Celina:
Probably the best. It was like sink or swim for me at that point. So I was like, I got to show them that like I have the balls and that's just what happened, I guess.

Jeffrey:
Yeah. Yeah. But one of the more interesting details about Great Jones Distilling is that it is the first legal distillery in Manhattan since Prohibition.

Celina:
Yeah, I've been running the illegal ones.

Jeffrey:
Yeah, the illegals have been going just fine. But there comes a time when you have to make yourself legal, right?

Jonathan:
Right. You can't keep running from the law. I'm on paper now. And what is it? How is the distillery birthed? When was it birthed? And you know, what's its story?

Celina:
I think the concept started before 2019. I was working at Oni's, which is one of our sister distilleries, and we've been looking at sites to open up this distillery for a little bit, in conjunction with Stranahan's and our other distilleries. But I was brought on to the project in 2019, and so I did a lot of the build-out, a lot of the equipment, wrecks and stuff like that. So yeah, I guess maybe 2017. I don't know. It was a long process in the building and we did look at a bunch of different sites.

Jeffrey:
But officially it opened in 2021.

Celina:
Right. Their first whiskey was still there in 2021.

Jeffrey:
Yeah. But it's a huge place. Yeah. From what I can see.

Celina:
Five stories and our still itself is two stories. We cut out like a cylindrical like cut through the floor and made a two story still from Vendome. It's like 25 feet tall.

Jeffrey:
It's 28,000 square feet.

Jonathan:
Yeah. Well, I'm just going to pour you a little bit of the bourbon, dad.

Jeffrey:
Are you going to make me a Manhattan?

Jonathan:
No, but I hear that. Can you do that? It makes a fabulous Manhattan. Is that not?

Jeffrey:
That's what I hear, too. And I I can see why just by smelling.

Celina:
That's yours. OK, we can. Yeah.

Jeffrey:
Yeah. Oh, that is delicious. That's very nice. All the elements that we need for a cocktail. It's got some strength to it. It's got concentration. It's delicious complexity.

Celina:
So we source all of our grain from the black dirt region of New York and everything is, you know, it's like an hour and 45 minutes north. And we ferment, distill everything on site. And then we send it back up to get to get aged and like The the quality of the whiskey is very indicative of the tour of New York, you know, about that, like fertile, rich soil and stuff, which, you know, you'll see even more so in the rye, because despite every other rye on the market, this is a very like vegetal, grassy, minty type of liquor that you can't find anywhere else. And like the only thing that can you know, define that is where it's grown, you know, and like, that's really special.

Jeffrey:
But the bourbon that we just tasted. Yeah. Do you know, can you tell me what the mash bill is on that?

Celina:
Not on paper, but it's obviously predominantly corn.

Jeffrey:
Yeah. But is there some rye in there too? Yes. Because I'm tasting rye. Yeah. I'm loving it.

Celina:
It's a beautiful balance. We have rye and malted barley. Lots of barley. Yeah. So like two, three row Yeah, and then predominantly corn. Yeah, it's delicious. About three quarters corn.

Jonathan:
And that's the rye. Which is like I think I've already tasted the rye. Well, don't say anything.

Celina:
The rye is like one of my favorites. But also the pitted bourbon is incredible.

Jeffrey:
Oh, yeah. That's a lovely, very smooth, very smooth.

Jonathan:
Um, so, uh, out of the two, the first two out of the first two, the bourbon rye, what do you think in a Manhattan? What are you thinking?

Celina:
Uh, bourbon Manhattan, right? Oh yeah.

Jonathan:
Oh, nice. And, and we know from distilled from, you know, meeting other distillers that water is pretty important in, in creating some really great spirits. And what is there something special, something different about the water?

Celina:
Yeah. So, so New York, um, so I have like had to. Uh, research water sources a lot, uh, in my, in my industry, but like, um, we come from like, uh, limestone aquifers from upstate, which, so basically if you, if you have. Uh, uh, soft stone, you have hard water, right? So limestone and sandstone have always been, uh, places. Historically that produce great bread great like beer bagels.

SPEAKER_06:
Yeah bagels.

Celina:
They always say it's like Whiskey beer like you look at Scotland and you look at like New York you can't like Kentucky and it's all sandstone It's limestone and it can be like trace scientifically to these aquifers of hard water and New York has fucking free water and like so we're really really lucky to to, you know, like, like, prior to like colonization and everything like that, there were so many breweries, or so many distilleries, like, and it's just because it was naturally a place where people could create these things were like, you should be happy and use like nutrient rich water.

Jenny:
Yeah, yeah.

Jeffrey:
Wow. Well, they are absolutely superb. And it makes me want to have a Manhattan. Right away. Yes, it's fantastic. But let's try the third.

Jonathan:
Well, I think we're going to go right in. So, yeah. Yeah. Well, I like your suggestions.

Jeffrey:
Thank you very much, because that is one that I've I've been looking forward to all three. But this one in particular, because of my affinity, because of my affinity for peated whiskeys. That's why. Why do you have an affinity specifically towards because I love seafood and I love particular shellfish and even more specifically oysters. And I find that peated whiskeys go beautifully with oysters.

Celina:
And this is amazing. It's like the smoke is coming out of the subway.

Shane:
Oh, that's how that is. Yeah, I like that.

Jeffrey:
You see? Oh, yeah. Look at that. It's everywhere. Yeah.

Celina:
Mm. That New York flavor.

Jonathan:
Mm. I love it. Can you tell us a little bit about the Petit Whiskey?

Celina:
Yeah, so this is a seven year bourbon that's been aged in scotch casks that I can't really tell you what they are, but it's the ashtray of scotch companies, if you know what that means. Okay, I can take a guess. Yeah, you know what I mean? But these two very strong flavors instead of like budding heads seem to complement each other where you're not losing the scotch and you're not losing the bourbon and which was very I don't know great for me. I'm not a big scotch person. I'm a bourbon bitch, but like it this this melded really well, and I'm I'm very happy about the results and I hope you guys enjoy it.

Jeffrey:
I want this. I want this on my bar at home. It's fantastic.

Jonathan:
Are there any plans in the future for new expressions, or is there something interesting, unique, secret that you're working on that you'd like to let us in on?

Celina:
Yes. Oh, thank you. You can whisper. It could be ASMR. We have a smoked bourbon that's coming out. I don't know if that's something I'm allowed to say, but it's going to be a mezcal muscatel and wheat whiskey as a bean.

Jonathan:
Wow, that's super cool.

Celina:
Yeah, it's pretty awesome. And it's going to be on our proof, and it's going to be on small bottles, I think. But we're starting to get real about the experimentation, and I can't wait for you guys to try it.

Jonathan:
Nice, this is a lovely conversation. You're great. Thank you so much for being able to join us. Thanks for having me. Glad you're here at Tails and have a great rest of your Tails.

Jeffrey:
Thank you, Selena Perez. Thank you very much. Head Distilling. Great Jones Distilling.

Jonathan:
Dad, we are rounding out our second episode of the Cocktail Guru podcast. This is actually the last episode of season three, and we couldn't be more excited. And we have another amazing, heaven forbid, we have another amazing guest to round out the day.

Jeffrey:
We have Shane Fitzharris, who is Senior Vice President Commercial of Infinium Spirits, the producer owners of Templeton Midnight Rye, and Templeton Bourbon.

Shane:
Hey, Shane. Hey, guys. How are you? Hello, Shane. We're doing well. It's great to be here.

Jonathan:
You're all bright and bushy tailed. Well, you know, don't let the truth get in the way of a good story. Yeah, I can detect an accent.

Shane:
Yeah, it's, you know, when people say to me, what's your accent? I always say, well, what's your accent? Because people have accents as well, but my accent is Irish.

Jeffrey:
Well, I can tell you it's not an accent from Iowa.

Shane:
Well, it's definitely not. It's definitely not. It's a funny story. Quickly east of Ireland, a place called Carlow, about an hour and a half southeast of Dublin. That's where I hail from.

Jonathan:
We always ask our guests before we get into it, what is your desert island drink? It's like if you're stranded on a desert island. Can I pick Templeton? Yes, you can.

Shane:
Absolutely, whatever you want. Anything you want. To be fair, we're not going to drink it today, but we have a 10-year single barrel. a Templin Rice single barrel. It's natural mulch and filtered, 52% ABV. It's an absolute beautiful dram. And I think that's the one I would bring with me. If I had a little bit of water with me as well, which I hope I do. Seawater. Okay. A little bit of saltiness. I'd drop a little bit in there. Now the proofs and I'd end up with two, three different whiskeys over my time. So the 10 year, uh, tempered rye single barrel. That's the one for me.

Jonathan:
I like it. Yeah. Well, um, let's talk about these whiskeys, shall we? And can we taste them? Absolutely. I think we should. Um, midnight rye first.

Shane:
Yeah, let's go with the rye first. I think that's the best thing to do. It leads us into the bourbon. And this is quite a unique product. I suppose just to give you a little bit of a quick rundown of Templeton. We've been an independent bottler for many, many years, you know, since 2006 when Templeton rye was re recreated from the original 1920s bootlegging empire that it was back in Templeton during Prohibition. It was recreated in 2006 by the original grandson of one of the original bootleggers, Keith Kirkoff. His grandson, Alphonse Kirkoff, was one of the original bootleggers. He recreated Templeton Rye, sourcing liquid, and we became an independent bottler for many, many years. Now we're moving from independent bottler into distiller. It's a transition that's happening right now, obviously with the inaugural release of Fortitude bourbon. But Midnight Rye is a very different, unique type of a product. And we're using our source casks here. So this is straight rye whiskey, but it's blended with port wine, which is very unique. And very different. Hence midnight. Hence midnight rye. And it's perfect for an after dinner drink, actually. A cigar, unbelievably perfect with a cigar. And what we've done here is we've taken our straight rye whiskeys. We have meticulously sourced port wine. And we brought them down to Templeton and we blended them together to create what you're drinking right now. It's a 46% ABV, so it's a proper whiskey. It hits you between the eyes. And it's a touch of port that's in there.

Jeffrey:
Yeah, it's so beautifully balanced. You would never really know unless somebody told you that there was port in there. It just integrates beautifully.

Shane:
It's what we're seeing with this is, and this is one of those things you just don't know where it's going to go. And we've only launched in the last couple of months, three months. But what we're getting back is a lot of people are saying to me, I'm not a whiskey drinker, but I really love this. Or, you know what, I didn't think I'd like whiskey, but I love this. And I think for us in our industry, in our worlds, The more people you can bring into whiskey, the better. That's what we want to do. We want to bring people into whiskey. It doesn't matter where they're from or demographics or what it is. And the more people we can do that, the better. And I think this is something that can actually bridge that gap between people who want to drink whiskey or dip in the toe in the market of whiskey. This is something that bridges the gap. And it's also perfect in Manhattan. So midnight Manhattan. You know, old-fashioned. Unbelievable. It really, really is. I think the complexity of the port wine and the rye whiskey really complements each other really well.

Jeffrey:
And rye whiskey is so smooth anyway. The addition of port makes it smooth and rich.

Shane:
Exactly. Very rich. Beautiful. You do get a lot of that red berry coming through on it too.

Jonathan:
And what about the Fortitude, the Templeton Bourbon Fortitude?

Shane:
Yeah. So two of them launched at the same time, but both tell a very different tale. So the Templeton Distillery, we started to distill in 2018. We cut the ribbon. A fantastic distillery in Templeton, Iowa, town of 362 people, of course. It's got a ballpark. It's got a pub. It's got a graveyard. and it's got a 65 million distillery on the shadow of it. And it's a fantastic facility. Visitor center, museum, 254,000 square foot maturation warehouses, pot stills, column stills from the fabled four sites in Scotland. And we have just launched our first inaugural distillate out of that distillery, which is Templeton Fortitude Bourbon that you're trying right now. This is a fantastic product in itself, because what it does now is it allows us to tell the story of Templeton, the distillery, our capability, our fermentation, our maturation, our distillation. The corn comes from within 15 miles of the distillery. We work hand in hand with the farmers to cultivate the corn, to harvest the corn, and we do everything within the 15 miles of the city. That's great. First time Templeton has ever First time Templeton has put out its own distillate out of the distillery. So it's a bit of a historic year for us. We're super proud of it. So we want to tell the story from the rooftops. 40% rye. Yes, it is. And the story behind that was we wanted to, you know, a lot of people will ask, well, you're known for Templeton rye. Why did you do a bourbon? And it's a good question. And we did it by design on purpose because we wanted to showcase to consumers that we can actually do a lot more at Templeton than just rye whiskey. We've got the ability to start to distill all styles of American whiskey from under one roof and releasing a bourbon allowed us to showcase that to people. The high rye, we wanted to obviously, you know, give a nod to the rye whiskey that we've always been known for. So to have 40% in the mash bill, 55% corn and 5% malted barley gives us an ultra high rye bourbon, even within the high rye bourbon category by the way. 40% is pretty high, but it also gives it a beautiful spiciness that comes through the sweetness of the bourbon too. So we're super happy with it.

Jonathan:
These are great products. And do you have, um, anything in the works? It looks like you're continuing to innovate, which is great. Um, because we, we, we love that with spirit brands, always trying to come up with, with something new.

Shane:
Yeah. Well, and that's what we're doing. Um, we've got a lot of innovation, not just true to products that we're going to be releasing. We have a large, two exciting products coming next year, both from the Templeton distillery as well. They're both going to be bottled and bond. One will be a ride. One will be a bourbon. I won't say much more about that, but they're coming next year. They're going to be launched together with the same time period. The Bottle of Bond will allow us to tell again the story of the distillery within one season at 100 proof and that's exciting. But from an innovation standpoint, we're looking across that whole distilling supply chain, how we can innovate with corn, how we can innovate with our grains, how we can innovate with our yeast. So bespoke yeast strains, working on things like that. How can we do more innovation from a distillation, maturation, fermentation standpoint? And we're never, you know, that's where our minds are really right now. All right. Cheers. Thank you, guys. Thanks so much. Appreciate your time. Delighted to be here in New Orleans with you. And yeah, I always wanted to get to meet you, too. And here I am. Poked list done. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Jonathan:
We have a dear old friend as our next guest today. Yes, we do.

Jeffrey:
Yeah. Very dear. Not so old, but very dear. Merci.

Jonathan:
Dear young friend, Jean-Francois. A fellow francophile or Frenchman. Yes.

Jeffrey:
He's more than a francophile. Yeah, right.

Jonathan:
He's actually a Frenchman. We're the francophiles. That's right. We are the francophiles. Use the French. Jean-Francois. Bonjour. Bonjour.

Jeffrey:
It's such a pleasure to be with both of you, really. Thank you, Jean-François. You are president and CEO of BCI.

SPEAKER_11:
Yes, yes. I have this pleasure.

Jonathan:
Absolutely. Before we talk about you and the company, we always ask our guests, what is your desert island drink? So if you're stranded on a desert island, what is the drink that you are like, I need to have this?

SPEAKER_11:
You know what, it's a tricky question. Thank you for asking it. You know, Jonathan, I appreciate it. It's difficult to say because one thing I will tell you is, for me, cocktails is like music and art. You have a different option depending on your mood, your thoughts, and your mind philosophy at that moment. So, I wouldn't be able to prepare for one before leaving because you don't know how you'll feel. I don't know how I would feel so I would do the most out of the circumstance which would be given to me on that island and but I'm sure I could find a good cocktail to make.

Jeffrey:
I learned from amazing bartenders for all those years. And that's why we have such a beautiful array of spirits here for our many different moods.

SPEAKER_11:
Yeah, no, absolutely. You know, as you both know, you know, we have been on a journey with my wife, Natalie, to build this company, BCI, which is today a leading importer for what we call terroir spirits, which terroir is very important to us. And it has been, as we were speaking, a very fun and exciting journey in all aspects. And so, yes, we have the privilege to focus on a few terroir brands which we believe has high potential in the US industry. And so, yes, that's what we do on a day-to-day basis, is love and be passionate about terroir.

Jonathan:
Well, that's great. I mean, we're very passionate about terroir as well. And we're so thankful that you have this amazing portfolio of spirits. And can you give us a little information about the birth of BCI? Where were you before? And how did it come to be this sort of entrepreneurial type of situation, right? I mean, we're, I'm an entrepreneur, so is dad. And, you know, I always, we've talked to many entrepreneurs on this podcast before.

SPEAKER_11:
No, no, absolutely. So as you know, because that's when we met, you know, I first, I left France, as you mentioned, I came here to study in the US. So I did my business education in the US, Harvard and NYU. And then after that, I built a company from scratch that you probably know called Maison Ferrand. in the U.S., so I built that business from zero. So I was privileged to build a team, you know, a very great team of people. And we built a seeded engine from scratch and then no plantation, which is called Plantaray today, and the portfolio of Maison Ferrand. Then I was very privileged to work for a gentleman called Bill Dutch. So I went to Dutch as a senior VP, and you know the portfolio of wine and spirits. And so I built a spirits division at Dutch. And after that, I was privileged to work for a different, very talented business people and build and manage your assets and activity. And 10 years ago, Natalia and I had our last child, Ocean, so this is number seven. Océane. Océane. Océane. Seven. Seven. Yeah, she's the last one. So she's going to be ten. Congratulations. And when we had Océane, Nathalie had an amazing career in the energy industry. And, you know, when you have this entrepreneurial DNA inside of you, as you know, one day asked to come out and you have to really go for it. And so I told Nathalie, I say, what if you are not going back to your career, if you don't mind, and let's, you know, build a couple of companies together. So that's what we did. We did that in France where we acquired Vineyards. And in the US, we started BCI, which first started as a high-level consulting agency for wine and spirits. And in 2018, 2019, we decided to become a national importer. And so that has been the journey since then, you know.

Jeffrey:
Wow, congratulations.

SPEAKER_11:
It's an incredible portfolio. It's a beginning, you know, Jeff. It's just the beginning. So we'll see.

Jonathan:
And you're very excited about all of your products. And there are a couple here that I think we're going to taste. Is that correct? Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_11:
The most important thing for Nathalie and I, I know Brett, our oldest daughter, has joined the family, so we're in the same situation. It's the family business. It's the family business. It was really, the most important for us was to identify the right partners in the segment of the industries that we believe, one, we are passionate about, and we believe not today, but tomorrow, are going to respond to what a lot of consumers are looking for. So first, between marketing brands and terroir brands and authenticity, we believe a lot of consumers, especially younger consumers, are going to be more and more interested about authenticity and terroir, right? So you know, there is a lot of marketing bullshit, which is completely fine. We believe more in multi-generational authenticity, knowledge, know-how, something tangible. So we are very careful about our portfolio. A company our size usually may have 1000 SKU, 2000 SKU. Between our wine and spirits, we have 79. So, for me, the most important thing is to be super, super selective. Yeah, to be focused. To be focused, because as you know, Jeff and Jonathan, building brands, everybody's talking about it, but who is really doing it? Because when you build brands the right way, where you build the foundation first, it takes a tremendous amount of work. And I don't know how people can do it for dozens and dozens of brands. I don't know. I've been privileged to do it for a few brands which today are very successful. I don't know how you do it with 2,000 SKUs. So a very number of brands, a very focused collection of brands. And one of the categories that we are discussing is beaters. Yes. So we have two examples here. I also brought you a Vermouth. I love Vermouth, like Anthony Vermouth, Coquerel Calvados, Gabriel Baudillé Liquor, Dillon & Depas Rum Agricole. And the two beaters I brought you are different, but very iconic in their own way. So the first one, yeah, if you want to test, is called Boomsma Cloister Beater. And we did a lot of research because right now I'm writing a book on the influence of monastic orders during medieval times. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. On beaters and vermouth. And I'm fascinated by it. And so we found out, you know, there is three main monastic orders, Benedictine, Cistercian, and Carthusian. And the Cistercian monastic orders, in fact, appeared at the end of the 1,000. And they built their abbey at the abbey of Clairvaux, next to Champagne and Burgundy. And then they sent monks around to develop their Cistercian orders. And some monks went to the Netherlands, to the north of the Netherlands, in a region called Friesland. And they built this monastery in 1163, called Clark Camp Monastery, and they developed the Cluster Bitter Recipe in 1402. Oh, wow. So as of today, based on the information we have, this is the oldest bitter recipe we know of from Europe.

Jonathan:
About 200 years earlier than a more popular or one that's kind of... Yeah, Les Percheurs Trous. Right? Yeah. Yeah, it's 300 years before. 300 years before.

SPEAKER_11:
Absolutely. So some of the bitters were made earlier, because as you know, bitters were very popular much earlier than the 1400s. But as of today, it's the oldest trace of bitter recipe we have.

Jeffrey:
And after two days of Tales of the Cocktail, we could all use a shot of this wonderful bitters.

Jonathan:
Not just to settle our stomachs, but for cocktails. Well, it's it's delicious. It's light and it's drinkable. Yes. So you can you know, it's not that kind of overpowering sensation when you take a sip of it.

SPEAKER_11:
No, which is really nice. Yeah, it's very nice. It's still made by the Boomsma family, local herbs in Friesland. It has this beautiful, you know, green, bittery color. Yeah, it's very balanced and so extremely versatile in cocktails. And then the other bitter we brought you, but you know this one. Of course. And Suze is a love story for me as well, because Suze, as you know, was launched at the exact same time as the Eiffel Tower in 1889, right? Never changed. but only made it to the U.S.

Jonathan:
like 10 years ago. All right, 1889, the World's Fair.

SPEAKER_11:
Yeah, the World's Fair, absolutely. It was launched exact same time.

Jeffrey:
Seriously? Only 10 years ago? Only 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_11:
It came to the U.S.? Yes, only 10 years ago. That's incredible, yeah. And people back then used to, you know, smuggle it back in their luggage when they were coming back from France, because as you know, Suze is everywhere in France. And the one thing we speak about with Suze is, you know, it's made from the roots of Jean Siane. And to make our Suze, it takes an average of 30 years. 30 years for the root of the jonciane to grow before we can cut them, macerate them, and then micro-distill them and add an aromatic bouquet. So the average time to make a bottle of jus, Jonathan and Jeff, it's 33 years.

Jonathan:
It's unbelievable. That is unbelievable. It's a delicious product. And yes, it's, it's a, it's a bartender's darling, you know, like, um, in the industry, within the industry, it's extremely well-respected and very much experimented with it.

Jeffrey:
Is there not a relationship between Suze and Crepe Suzette?

SPEAKER_11:
Si, la crêpe Suzette, le fond de culotte, you know, Seuss and Gabriel Boudier Cassis. Today, the white Negroni has become a classic cocktail where you can only make a white Negroni with Seuss. But then, mescal and tequila are amazing cocktails with Seuss as well. And then, you have the new Parisian spritz, which is Seuss, Gabriel Boudier Salle de Peche, and sparkling wine. I love the Boudier, Gabriel Boudier. Merci. C'est magique.

Jonathan:
Magique. Oh, that's delicious. Well, I mean, gosh, it's all of these, the Boumsma and the Sous, delicious on ice, but also obviously as an ingredient in cocktails. Is there anything, do you have anything in the works? Are there exciting new products that you have coming in? I'm sure you do. Maybe you can't speak of them.

SPEAKER_11:
No, no, we do, we do. In fact, right now we are launching two amazing line of Rum Agricole, AOC de la Martinique, Dion, and DePaz. So, we are launching them right now. We are very excited because we believe a rum agricole, even if 2% only on the rum category, is very appealing, what we are discovering, to mezcal and tequila drinkers. Much more to regular rum drinkers. So, we are very excited to launch Dillon and DePaz. And yes, we have a couple of surprises coming, but we will do another meet together

Jonathan:
I love, I love Ron Magro. Martinique is one of my favorite places to visit. Jean-Francois, it's always great to see you. And I'm so thankful that I've been able to see you, um, fairly often, you know, whenever we have industry events, it's great. Thank you very much.

Jeffrey:
Hello to your entire family for us.

SPEAKER_11:
Merci. Merci Jeff.

Jeffrey:
Hello my friends and welcome back to Cocktail Commentary. New Orleans is one of my favorite cities in the U.S. Whenever I'm there, I feel like I'm in another country. Nay, another world. The atmosphere is unlike any other, and the Creole and Cajun cuisine is a fascinating, and I might add, a delicious blend of American, African, Spanish, Italian, Caribbean, and of course, French culinary traditions. As soon as I land, I begin my gastronomic adventures by rushing, literally rushing to Oyster Paradise, better known as Acme Oyster. I'm usually there early in the morning before they officially open, but I take a seat at the oyster bar and watch the shucker deftly and elegantly open the mollusks to reveal the grayish, white, pearly oyster that glistens in the shimmering floodlights. Once I'm allowed to order, I go for a dozen char-grilled oysters and a dozen oysters Rockefeller. Before you call me a glutton, keep in mind that I'm usually accompanied by one or two friends, so we share everything. These two dishes are heaven to me, but I love raw oysters, so we usually have a few of those as well. The Eastern oyster is rich and full of briny character, very different from the West Coast oyster, which is richly textured and less briny. The Gulf oyster is what you find in New Orleans, and they are delicious. I find that they have the flavor of an East Coast oyster, but with textural richness that reminds me of the oysters found in warmer Pacific Ocean waters. The less salty Gulf of Mexico and the fresh water of the Mississippi River influence the flavor and texture of the Gulf oyster. Beauregard Island, Gulf Coast, Triple N, Admiral, and Camarada Bay are just some of the species that can be found in Louisiana. The oil spill of 2010 was a disaster for the entire ecological system of the Gulf Coast, but especially for the once-thriving oyster population. Slowly but surely, oyster cultivation is coming back, and based on my interviews, local New Orleans restaurants appear to have an adequate supply to continue to feed the onslaught of hungry tourists. Now, as we all know, New Orleans is known for its mystery and intrigue. And what would life in the Crescent City be without a little rivalry, a little healthy competition? There does seem to be a rivalry between two iconic establishments. Acme Oyster, and the restaurant across the street called Felix's Restaurant and Oyster Bar. When I'm at Felix's, I always start with the turtle soup, something that I used to order for years at a restaurant in the New Jersey countryside until they had to stop serving it. But in New Orleans, this traditional 19th century soup continues. Delicious with or without a dash of sherry. All of the lavish dinners organized by the high society millionaires of New York started with diamondback terrapin soup, better known as turtle soup. Of course, you can get the full complement of oysters, char-grilled, fresh, or fried, and pretty much any shrimp dish that you can think of, including the classic po'boy. I love both restaurants so much, I will often go to Acme for oysters and a jambalaya, and then cross the street to Felix's for turtle soup and oysters bien viu. Since I experiment with oysters and spirits on a regular basis, I can state with certitude that whiskey, especially a peated whiskey, marries beautifully with oysters. I've been enjoying this pairing for many years, and it never fails me. Whether the oysters are fresh, char-grilled, or fried, makes no difference. It is one of the most satisfying gastronomic experiences that life has to offer. This peated scotch cask bourbon from Great Jones Distillery is a fine example of just how good this combination can be. Look at this beautiful platter of oysters, this wonderful Great Jones whiskey from a peated cask. Nothing, nothing better than this. Let me enjoy some. If you don't mind, That's a chargrilled oyster right there. I'm going to wash it down with this wonderful pitted bourbon. Yes, the peat comes through, blends perfectly with the oyster, cuts some of the brininess of the oyster. It is just very satisfying. And thanks very much for joining me on this edition of Cocktail Commentary. Until next time, cheers. Wow. Nothing better.

Jonathan:
Well, thank you so much for joining us for the season finale of the Cocktail Guru podcast, season three finale, our third year in a row here in New Orleans.

Jeffrey:
New Orleans and a big thank you to all of our industry guests and a big, big shout out and great thank you to Star Hutchson of Café Amélie, where we had one of the absolutely greatest meals of my lifetime, for sure.

Jonathan:
saying a lot. It was that good. It was really great and we look forward to joining you again for season four. Of course we do our season finale every year from New Orleans and we can't wait to come back.

Jeffrey:
Can't wait and cheers and laissez les bons temps rouler.

Jonathan:
That does it for today's show.

Jeffrey:
If you enjoy what we do, please rate, review, and subscribe to the podcast.

Jonathan:
To watch or listen to today's episode, or to see the show notes, visit thecocktailgurupodcast.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, YouTube, X, Instagram, or TikTok.

Announcer:
The Cocktail Guru Podcast is produced by First Real Entertainment and can be seen on eatsdrinkstv.com, Spotify, and Zencastr, or heard on Apple, Google, Amazon, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Travel arrangements provided in part by Zelle Travel.