S2 Finale Part 3 - Delicious Discoveries at Tales of the Cocktail: A Spirited Recap with Jonathan and Jeffrey Pogash

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You. Hey, everyone. I am here at the beautiful Omni Royal Orleans across the street from the famed New Orleans courthouse. We are at the 21st tales of the Cocktail in The Big Easy. I'm so excited for our live recording episodes of The Cocktail Group podcast.
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We have amazing guests and of course, Dad's going to be there. Dad's had a blast. You could probably hear my tails voice. That's what this is called. But I'm so excited to show you around New Orleans.
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And Tales of the Cocktail. Cheers. The Cocktail Guru podcast finale continues from The Big Easy. Beautiful New Orleans, Louisiana, with a stellar lineup of guests, celebrities and legends from the spirits, bar and restaurant industries. In this episode, we meet Elaine Duff, Jaime Salas, Naomi, Leslie Tamu, Curtis, Woody Kane and more.
00:00:57
You know, dad, this is my 20th or so year coming to Tales of the Cocktail. And every year there are just tons of events. It's incredible, John. There are so many. There have been so many.
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Too many to count. I know. And this year my team of cocktail gurus hosted not one, but two spirited events. Plus, I was fortunate enough to judge the Libby's Makers Cocktail bar mixology event, and that was through Libby Glassware and Makers mark, that was at the Ritz Carlton in New Orleans. Yep.
00:01:31
I did want to share our event experiences from this year's Tales, but before we do that, John, let's chat with Elaine Duff, whose interview on our first day unfortunately had some technical difficulties. Isn't that dream come true, having Elaine Duff with us twice? This is fantastic. I know Elaine is here. We had to do a little bit of a reshoot because of some technical difficulties, but we're glad in a way because we get to see Elaine and talk to Elaine about her brand new role with a wonderful company portfolio of products called Samson and Surrey.
00:02:09
And Elaine, welcome to the Cocktail Guru podcast. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be back. And anytime I get to spend a second time with you gentlemen I mean, I've known you both my entire career, so we don't get to see each other as often. So this is always a pleasure.
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Well, that's the first part of my introduction, which Jonathan didn't let me do because he didn't do lengthy introduction. No, I just want to get right into it. But I was going to say it's very personal because Elaine and I go way back and have worked together on the same brands, on legendary brands while she was brand ambassador for some of these fantastic legendary brands. And here we are again, full circle to talk about her newest role as director of brand advocacy for Samson and Surrey. How did you transition into this position from based on your experiences in the past and kind of it is full circle because this it is definitely full circle.
00:03:08
I mean, I've been in this industry for 23 years. And as you both know, I've worked for the two biggest suppliers in this industry. I started my career at Diageo and then I went to Anheuser Bush and now I'm working at Samson and Surrey, working for a large supplier like Diageo. I obviously learned what it was like to be the first ever corporate mixologist for them and to be a national brand ambassador, to launch brands across the country, execute trade events, execute consumer events. And then working for Anheuser Bush, I got to travel the globe.
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I learned how to create activations and education programs globally, which was quite an education. And now I get to apply all of that into my new role. And as you also know sorry, and I almost skipped over it, which know, in between that and my last job was I created the Beverage Brand Ambassador Academy. So the Brand Ambassador Academy and Jonathan, you and I sorely know there is no for those of you guys don't know, Jonathan and I worked know Jonathan had a agency and was helping we had a brand ambassador agency. That's right.
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And you know, as you start know, work with a lot of companies and brands, you start to realize, oh my God, there is no training program for brand ambassadors. It's a very difficult job to train for, to provide training for because knowledge that you need to provide them is so extensive that it takes a lengthy amount of time. So I created the Beverage Brand Ambassador Academy, which is an online training academy which brands use now. And I'm using it for my own team called the Beverage Brand Ambassador Academy. And it's an onboarding program.
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It literally teaches you how to do the job of brand ambassador. So everything that you need to know from how to work with distributors, how to work with accounts, how to build relationships in the off and on trade, and then also how to build your own brand, how to build your personal brand as a brand ambassador, how to present, how to manage your time, just all the different skill sets. Because as we know, the Brina brand ambassadors is a very complex role. So I do feel, as you said, Jonathan, it has come full circle because now I get to take all the things I learned from the two big companies I work for creating my own company and creating a training program. And now being the advocacy director for Samson Surrey, I get to apply all that to my own team.
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And you know, based on the experience that you and I had, you know what not to do. Absolutely. Because that was rough. It was a tough time in my life, my day to day life. In fact, it was crazy.
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It was very intense, as we know. And brands have very unrealistic expectations of what a part time person can actually achieve in a very short period of time and are disappointed when they can't do it. And that I learned a lot from. I actually learned I was like, what is actually realistic for a person to achieve within a short period of time and also learning how to hire people a bit better because we didn't always hire people that actually achieved what they said they were going to achieve. Yeah.
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So now in my new role, I've had a just hire. I'm fully stocked and I have nine brand ambassadors since actually we saw each other in Tails. I have brought on four new team members from tails since tails, not from Tails, but since I have hired four new people. Yeah. So now I am fully staffed.
00:06:58
I have seven, what we call boss teams. So they're bar operations specialists. So they come to the table with not only just knowledge about the brand, but also how to run a bar program, how to create cocktail program. So they really act as consultants with the bars that they're working with, as well as two national brand ambassadors, one national whiskey brand ambassador, and one national agave specialist. So I'm really excited.
00:07:24
So I am now in the midst of onboarding well, soon to be four. They're still all going through a lot of paperwork, process in the background, but fully staffed. And the brands that you guys represent are some of the best in the world. It's one of the biggest things that appeals to people is one of the things when I got hired at Samson Surrey, when they were interviewing me, they, you know, why do you want to come on know, you have your own company. Why do you need to do said to be honest with Said, I've, you know, been asked to come on to a couple of companies over the years.
00:07:58
And I said, this is the first place where a the portfolio is incredible. Right. So we have few whiskey from Chicago. We have widow Jane out of Brooklyn. We have Ocho tequila, which, come on, it's a legend of all tequilas.
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Mezcal vago industry. Those are both industry darlings. They're both industry know, we got Blue Code out of Philly, and we got Bren, which is a French single malt whiskey. And each one of them has their own little specific. They all know as somebody who came from large companies to work with brands that actually I get to meet the owners, the people who founded it, get to meet the distillers, and they all have an authentic kind of story to bring to the table, which is incredible.
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They really are craft spirits at their best. Yes. That's why your company is called 1st Reel Entertainment. Exactly correct. And the building is really cool working for large corporations.
00:08:52
Oh, my God, you have so many strongholds on you, you can't breathe without somebody telling you, like, oh, that wasn't correct, or how you need to operate. And the one thing that Robert and Juan, the founders of Samson Story really honor is that they really give you a ton of autonomy. They really look for entrepreneurs so that you can kind of just do what you do. Like, we understand that you have certain skill sets, so we expect you to manage your team. We expect you to come up with programs that, you know, will make our brand shine.
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And here's the budget to go do that. It's not expensive, but it's enough that we can do some really cool things. So never been happier. But I don't know if you mentioned this, but if you have, we'll just mention again, I didn't want to forget that great whiskey from about Widow Jane, because Widow Jane's in my backyard. So it's kind of cool to be able to get on a ferry, go across to, you know, walk down the street, and you got this amazing, incredible distillery that's there.
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We're in the middle of building another one. Because the one thing I really respect about them is that everything that they do with all these companies, they don't want them to change what they've been doing, right? So Widow Jane, if you're familiar with it, they only use five barrel blends. They are really good at blending. But their distillery itself, they started producing their own spirits.
00:10:16
And we actually just produced our very first commercial rye, paradigm rye. So paradigm rye, it is sourced from Indiana and Kentucky, right? We picked the very best barrels that are 100% rye, no barley. But we also use a blend of our own, 100% rye from our own distillery. So it's the first commercially one released into the marketplace where it has our rye within it.
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And 100% rye, as you both know, is really hard to do. It's extremely sticky. As many distillers say. It's a bitch to work with. But they really wanted to important.
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And the one thing that they wanted to bring to the table, which I found, which I love, is that this rye is a sipping rye as well. So it has a lot of sweet notes, like a bourbon, but then it has its own specific spice notes that it really brings forward from what they're doing from the blend that they're putting together in the distillery, which I love. And what we were doing in person in New Orleans with you is we were tasting some of your products, and I think we tasted some Widow Jane. And I'm hoping Carrie and Margaret will add some B roll of us sipping because the video worked out well. It was just an audio issue.
00:11:32
But before we let you go, I wanted to mention something that I didn't bring up when we were together in Was, but for season one, we had the wonderful Mia Mastroiani as one of our guests, who is, of course, on Bar Rescue, or Was, but also you were the original mixologist on Bar Rescue. I don't know about the original. I think well, that's so true. I was I was on the very first episode of Bar Rescue. I was that was swanky.
00:12:02
Bubbles in Philadelphia. I had a very bad black haired bob at that time. For those of you who don't know me, I changed my hair way too often, and my hair was black. In all of the episodes of Bar Rescue, which I did five or six shows. I can't remember I did up to, like, the third or fourth season, where I always did at least two shows.
00:12:26
But I was also a mom, so I couldn't do shows all the time. They were constantly asking me to do shows, and I was like, I have a small human that I have to transport. And she came onto a lot of the sets with me because I needed to bring Mare with me, so I bring my sitter and my daughter, so she doesn't remember any of that. So unfortunately, on that show, we weren't drinking things in places like Spiky Bubbles. I think one of the things we talked about last time, which was the vault from The Widow Jane.
00:12:52
Yes. So this is about to be released, coming out in October, the 15 year old. So if you get your hands on this, it's very rare. It's allocated. They only take, again, five of the most select barrels of their rarest whiskey that are 15 year olds and above, but they also age in a shinical pin I don't know if I'm saying that.
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Shinqua pin oak, which is air, seasons for four years. So it has lovely notes, but basically the reason why they pick this particular barrel, so they blend all the barrels together, and then they finish it off in this shinnequin pin oak CAS because it brings a particular flavor note. It also allows the bourbon to sink much further into the wood. So it really gets a lot of notes of, like and I want to make sure I get this correctly on the palate, which I have it right here. And really, it's like honeycomb, butterscotch, raisin, molasses, dried apricots, and root beer.
00:13:58
I'm drooling I'm tasting it right now, and it is delicious. I'll take some right now. So look for that. That's coming out in October. Oh, it's not out yet.
00:14:09
Very soon. If you I just saw a rather nice stacking of Widow Jane in a shop the other day, and I think I better go back to that shop and buy some. Yeah, I think you should. The ten year old, you'll always find, and it is fantastic. And I do love both our rides.
00:14:26
The paradigm and the applewood are phenomenal. Well, I'm going to go after Elaine. Thank you so much for taking the time to come on with us again. Take two, part two, and we wish you the best in your new role at Sampson and Surrey. All right, thank you so much, gentlemen.
00:14:42
It was so great to see both of you. Thank you elaine, what a pleasure to see. Thank you. Coming up, we'll give you a peek at some of the events we attended at the 21st annual Tales of the Cocktail.
00:14:56
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00:15:46
After our first day of interviews, it was time for John's first event, happy Hour. Yeah, that's right. My guru team. And I alongside Holy dive bar owner Nick Jarrett. Knocked it out of the park, if I do say so, with a little happy hour.
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Or spirited happy hour at Shannoir, which was sponsored by Silky Irish Whiskey and the Priest Imports portfolio, we made these delicious cocktails that we paired with oysters and breads and various other types of fishes. And later that night, we partied like it was 1999 at the Monkey Shoulder dance party. It really was a dance party. And when we arrived at that party, we were handed silk robes, a sleeping mask, and a feather boa. Man, dad, you looked amazing in that.
00:16:34
Not only were they serving fantastic cocktails made with Monkey Shoulder scotch whiskey, but they had aerial performers, roller skate dancers, and a really, really cool photo booth. And did we mention the light up swings? Thursday morning, I gave conference goers the opportunity to learn about sustainable mixology at the Libby Makers Cocktail Bar event in the Maison Room at the Ritz Carlton Hotel. Guests got to create their very own Makers Mark Cocktail and had a chance to win $500. After spending a little time making cocktails with the bees, we headed back to Lucha noir and met up with Jaime Salas, naomi Leslie, and Taimu Curtis to hear their spirited journeys.
00:17:19
Another old friend has joined us in the podcast studio. Jaime Salas. Dude, it's been a really long time. It has. We're saying that to everybody because some things happened earlier in the 2020s, but I'm so glad that you're able to join us on our podcast.
00:17:36
I am delighted to be here, and it has, in fact, been a very long time. Even pre pandemic, let's be honest. So, yeah, it's good to see you. Yes. Usually we all get to catch up, like, once a year.
00:17:45
This is the gather here. Exactly. Everybody, I may not see you in New York, but I'll see you in New Orleans, right? I have a memory of I think maybe meeting you for the first time in New York at BOOKMARKS. I think so.
00:17:57
Which is where I was doing the bar program for. Right. Were you just sort of tequila ambassador, like a general tequila? That's right. At this time I was.
00:18:07
I had just gone to New York. This is probably I hate to say it, it would have been 2007, probably. Yeah. Because I think I'd gotten there around 2006, maybe. And I met you shortly after that, and yeah, you were the first pioneers, I remember, our old school, if you will.
00:18:25
I got to meet a lot of great people through you as well, and people have in common to the state. Yeah. And I was representing tequila and I was with what portfolio was I with then? I can't remember, but it was a great time. I was new to New York, and I thought, what a great city to represent tequila in.
00:18:39
No idea of the affinity that would grow from that and the popularity of the spirit being from California in Mexico, I thought, of course, clearly it's in our blood, right. Something we love. But boy, New York change my mind. Really? Yeah.
00:18:52
It's impressive. And it grew tequila, I think, to what it is. Yeah. We added our grain of sand, if you will. Right.
00:19:01
I think we all contributed to that love affair and that population, or that I say the bartender community had a love affair with tequila. But what's transpired in the last 20 years, particularly at the hands of cities like New York, which are very inspirational and pioneering, have really elevated, I think, tequila to where it is today. I know I helped to contribute to that growth in tequila. If you do say population, because I am a huge fan of margaritas. 185,000 margaritas are consumed an hour in the US.
00:19:30
Yes. Just a weird fact I love to share. Number one. Number one, I think it's mind blowing. It has been since 1953 or 54, but yet tequila is not the number one selling spirit.
00:19:43
I never understood why. I didn't either. And I know we're limited on time, so we probably really can't get into it. Right. But when you stop to think about the nuances related to that, it's mind boggling to your point.
00:19:54
Because also, if we break down margarita consumption, everybody drinks a margarita, probably drinks tequila neat. Right. They like the spirit. They like the spirit, like the cocktail or both. But some people prefer just the margarita without the tequila.
00:20:08
So that blows my mind. Right. I don't know if that contributes to that. Right. But when you stop to think about it, you're like, how could you not love everything about tequila?
00:20:16
That's very core, the agave plant, this herbaceous, floral earthy thing, that it's like nothing else. But a cocktail is a cocktail, I suppose. Right. And that is why we're able to popularize, I think, these spirits through the catalyst of the cocktail. I want to get into tasting some of these.
00:20:31
So you have the cristolino. We should probably taste the cristolino before the flavors. Speaking of tequila and where we're at and the consumption, the love affair that folks are having with this famous agave spirit, probably the most famous ambassador from Mexico to the world, it's crystallinos right now that are, albeit they're very small. They're hot platform. They're hot.
00:20:51
The velocity is what is it about it? You know what it is? I think we have it's a new shiny thing. I think we also have a new drinker who appreciates a white spirit, if you will. And here we have Juan Domingo back in 2008, launched a crystallino.
00:21:08
And since then people have started really getting into them. And this is our 1800 cristalinos and ANECO. It's a combination of our award winning anieco made of French in America. Are you familiar with cristalinos? I don't know if you are.
00:21:21
No, I'm not. Essentially, it's a tequila. That's an age expression of tequila that is filtered through charcoal filtration to remove the impurities imperfections of the oak, thereby also a byproduct of that is removal of color. But what you get is you have sort of a new alchemy, I like to say, because oftentimes we think about reposados blancos and extranecos. We don't think about and we think about the taste proposition.
00:21:45
And this one, I think, changes all of that. We have a tequila now that's a little brighter, kind of like reminiscent of a blanco. It has a little bit of that residual complexity that benefit from an age spirit, perhaps without the weight. And age wise, is it on the same line as we're looking at about twelve to 16 months in contact. It's a blend of American French, as I mentioned, but then it's finished in a pork cast.
00:22:09
Okay. So it's a reposado timeline. In this case, it's an it's an ine over twelve. Oh, you said twelve to twelve. Right.
00:22:17
And that pork cast finish is probably a good three months or so. What you get sort of that the pork finish is really what I think that's what really is pronounced right, for sure. A little bit of cooked agave, a little of that vanilla coming through, and a little bit of that pork cast finish in the back palate. That's fantastic. Very nice.
00:22:36
So here at Tails, we did a cristalino. We call it Colexion. The Mexico. We did a cristalino presentation. I did a couple of seminars in one of the tasting rooms.
00:22:48
And that's exactly what we talked about. We talked about this newfangled spirit. It's about ten years in as a category. It's really driving the category. And this is a very unique expression within that Burgundy style of and I know that there's quite a bit of a price variation or cost variation.
00:23:06
Are crystallinos generally going to be a little bit higher, a little bit more processing? Clearly right. Production and craftsmanship and they're typically at a value that's one or two points, depending on the predecessor. So whether it's you can have a cristalino that's just a straight aged reposado or anejo and then filtered, or much like in this case, you can have a blend of different oak finishes or the oak oak styles, and you can have a finish added. On top of that, you can add in extra aged tequilas.
00:23:35
So all of those things are clearly going to there's a really cool amount of flexibility, I think, when it comes to like what you were saying, the different barrel ages and whatnot. Yeah, absolutely. It's really cool. Absolutely. So you can have just a straight age or you can have something that's truly complex.
00:23:49
I think what's really cool about is you can put it in a cocktail and it could be just as bright and sort of mellow to a very complex I don't know, say this would work equally as well in an elevated tequila soda as it would. Sure. Or ranch water. Ranch water, yeah. And I think the one you're about to pick up next is probably the coconut.
00:24:09
Yeah, I think is that what you want to try that? Yeah, let's try that one. So, 1800 coconut. Wow, this is awesome. So we're all about flavor at 1800, right?
00:24:16
And what we mean by flavor is we're the world's most awarded family portfolio. And for us, it's about all the elements of things that taste good and things that we feel represent good taste. All cultural elements, food, music. Right. And here, clearly, we're talking about the product itself.
00:24:39
For us, it's how do we make something? People are clearly clamoring for spirits that are either infused with something or have some sort of flavor. I remember coming across this actually, I hadn't worked on the brand yet, and I came across it at a store, tried it and thought, coconut tequila. All right, let's give it a shot. Right?
00:24:59
I did. So I haven't come back since, let's put it that way. And I tend to be very discerning when it comes to flavored spirits. But you taste it for yourself. It's got this beautiful tropical coconut note.
00:25:14
It's a nice coconut rind, I think, and it doesn't sit on your tongue. It's a really nice, clean no, you don't get kind of like the glycerin. Yeah. You don't get this sort of precarious situation to talk about anything coconut flavored because we often go back to that thing that we always think about when it comes to coconut. Right.
00:25:36
Sunset, ocean, and things like that. Right. It's quite the contrary. You get that agave, you get that floral note that herbaceous is from the pina, from the agave, and then you get that very interesting layer of tropical flavor. And it's taken eleven generations to get here.
00:25:51
That's right. You know that we're eleven generations in a lot of tequila nova. Clearly a lot of innovation with the cristalino and the expansion of our portfolio. Yes. And our latest introduction, we launched this earlier this season, if you will, earlier in the summer.
00:26:07
It is cucumber jalapeno. I don't have to tell you that everybody loves a spicy margarita, so we want to facilitate that for folks by having something that's ready in the glass, also infused with cucumber. And you do get a lot of cucumber peel in this. I did want to say oftentimes we get that cucumber rind, we get that cucumber flesh. This one has a little bit of that peel, so it's got a little nice little green swish it around you.
00:26:30
So natural smell. Yeah, it really is jalapeno, sort of. And may I make another suggestion? Yes, absolutely. Great for cocktail, but also great for Bloody Marys.
00:26:44
Oh, bloody Maria. My bloody Maria. Let me ask you this. Tomatillo based or red tomato based? No, mine is tomato based.
00:26:55
Red tomato. Yeah, red tomato. Okay. You ever try with the muffee? I have, and I like that too.
00:27:03
Yeah. Just one more way to this has become very serious. Yes, it has. And it could get even more of taste. I wanted to get your what I like about your perception is that both of these, they're not cloyingly sweet.
00:27:14
And the proof is, like, there are other flavored spirits out there that add a ton of sugar, and it brings the proof down, and it's just sticky. You got more of a cure than you do something that stands as tequila. Yeah. The intention here is to keep it in line with our craftsmanship and process. We employ the same recipe we have over 200 years.
00:27:33
And the idea here is, how do we take that tequila base? How do we infuse these flavors, add into it, make it so that it can stand on its own as well as a cocktail. Exceptionally good with pineapple juice. Incredibly great in a margarita. But I can tell you that I personally have been drinking it with flavored soda waters.
00:27:51
Just depends. Sure. Yeah. Very refreshing. Very refreshing.
00:27:56
Time for summer. And are you guys doing anything at Tails? Are you activating? Yeah. We incorporated 1800 into the Crisalino portfolio event that we did, which is essentially a tasty room.
00:28:10
And we brought in a couple of bars from Mexico City top. Oh, that's right. Yeah. We brought in Rago and Caitlito. We brought them out here just to really sort of showcase exactly that.
00:28:20
What is Mexico doing with cristellinos? Right. After all, we can deny it all we want, but tequila is Mexican. The hotbed of tequila, clearly right now it comes to cocktail culture is Mexico City in Guadaljara. And so we brought them out to tell us a little bit about cristalinos, how they're employing it, how they're using it, how it is that they are sharing it with the masses.
00:28:39
It's been in Mexico for over ten years, and the salinos here are about two, three years in outside. Of in terms of popularity, they've been here longer, but it's now starting to really pick up where I'd say Mexico. They've been there for around over ten years and it really started to pick up around six, seven years ago. So you can imagine we're a little bit behind and usually we're the trendsetters, if we're honest. Right.
00:29:01
The US is in fact, who sets these types of consumption trends, if you will. So we brought him in to just give us a little know how in terms of how Mexico is utilizing cristalino. So it was really good. I got a lot of great feedback from folks in think, you know, when you come to tails, you have a lot to explore and there's a lot of options, a lot of things you can learn. So it particularly did my heart warm to see a lot of people lined up waiting to learn more about this.
00:29:26
Mystifying sort of new tequila everybody's trying to learn more about and get a clarification on, if you will. Pun intended. Right? He's like, what is a cristalino? Tell us all about it.
00:29:37
And that's just what we intended to do is to just shed a little light. That's awesome. Well, this has been a great conversation, Jaime, and great to see you. Like we said before, it's been a long time. We go way back and we really appreciate you joining us on the podcast.
00:29:51
Thank you for having me. I appreciate you guys and it's great to see you. Thank you. Cheers. Thank you.
00:29:56
Advocacy for proximal spirit. That's right.
00:30:02
Dad, you're eyeing this bottle of the balcony today. Yesterday we've been all over the world and now we're back to a place near and dear to my heart, scotland and Scotch whiskey. Here we are. It's all about the Balvini right now. Naomi, Leslie, thank you so much for joining us today.
00:30:20
Thank you for having me. Absolutely. You are the East Coast ambassador for the Balvini about five years now, yeah. Wow, that's fantastic. What a great product to represent.
00:30:31
It's not a tough one to talk about. No. There's been such innovation at the Balvinian. You have for us the Caribbean Cask, 14 year old. Wow.
00:30:43
This is probably my favorite bottling of balcony. Yes. You've had this? Yes. Well, wasn't it was it called just rum cask before?
00:30:53
So we've actually had a couple of different rum finish iterations before this one. The difference with this one is that now we actually blend to the rum ourselves in the Caribbean, bring it in, bats over to Scotland and season the casks versus previous releases. We would do kind of the more normal thing, which is buy barrels directly from distillery. Right. But we found consistency with that, so we decided to take it into our own hands.
00:31:14
Yeah, I'm going to pour some. Yeah. This is, I mean, by far a crowd favorite, this Caribbean cask. It's just beloved by all. Yeah, absolutely.
00:31:29
That hint of tropical in the nose. Yeah. Pineapple, coconut. This is the first Balvention I ever tried, so it's a very special place in my heart. Yeah, exactly.
00:31:39
I worked at a rum bar, and if you're going to have a cool scotch in a rum bar, this is a great one. What was the rum bar? Blacktail the Sister Bar to Dead Rabbit Were you there when my dad did a training? Maybe? Actually, I did a staff training for both properties.
00:31:53
I think I did blacktail. Well, that must have been just about five years ago or so. No longer. Yeah, I was there. Yeah.
00:32:02
From 2016 to 2018. What was the training that you did? Probably somewhere between was it on Bloody Mary's? No, the training. Oh.
00:32:11
Yes, it was Bloody Mary. Because you wrote a book called Bloody Mary. Very cool. That's right. Yeah.
00:32:15
No, it's a great spot. I missed that. That was a sad 2020 closure, unfortunately. Yes, I know. But yeah, this is one that it definitely helped me fall in love with this rum finished whiskey.
00:32:24
Did you start working in bars in New York? Okay. Yeah. So I came to New York from college in 2014 and didn't really have any clue what I wanted to do. I just knew I wanted to live in New York and I got a job barbacking at Deer Irving.
00:32:38
Another great spot. Yeah. And would train on my days off to bartend. And then eventually I got the Cat program here, which is amazing. So it's always fun to be back at Tails.
00:32:47
Yeah, that's the cocktail apprentice program. So kind of started out there and then I ended up meeting the Dead Rabbit crew through the Cat program. And that's how I ended up at Blacktail on the opening team there. And pretty much only a whiskey as good as the Balvenny could have gotten me to leave Blacktail. I really enjoyed bartending.
00:33:04
Yeah, that was a great yeah. But it was a very much brand driven decision. So people actually used to tease me when I was still bartending of secretly being paid by the Balveni because it was always my recommendation. Right. So it was very specifically about this whiskey that I came onto this role.
00:33:22
This is a very innovative product. But that's something that Balvini has been doing for a long time. Because as we were talking earlier, I remember quite well when the twelve year old double wood was released. And that was way back in 1993 when I first started out at a particular wine and spirit importing company and became involved in the Scotch whiskey industry and with a company that was also doing double Maturation. But not as early as 1993.
00:33:53
So this was very innovative and one of the first of the double mature whiskeys. Yeah, absolutely. And so our malt master, David Stewart, I think it's something we take for granted now with the Double, because you see that so frequently all the time. But at the time for David, that was hugely, hugely influential and new and kind of this pioneering moment for him. So that was a really exciting time in our history, for sure.
00:34:16
And the excitement continues. Yes, the excitement continues. More innovation. And actually, speaking of David, so it was his 60th anniversary with the company last year. Oh, wow.
00:34:26
And we've officially passed the baton onto his apprentice of six years, Kelsey McKeckney. So she's now officially our Malt master. Terrific. That's very exciting. A young lady as Malt master.
00:34:36
That's fantastic. Absolutely. Yeah. We want her for the long haul. Right.
00:34:40
And I also wanted to indicate to everyone out there that the Balvini is a Speyside Malt, which not everybody realizes. Speyside is lovely, delicate, complex, beautiful style of Malt in general. Yeah. It's a beautiful part of the country to visit as well, because there is so many distilleries, like, talk about a bang for your buck kind of Scotland trip. Yeah.
00:35:01
You pop around and what was I talking about yesterday? John paddling in a canoe down the Spay River, which I have done. That's right. That's a pretty epic. It's not as leisurely as people might think.
00:35:14
No. We were there in the wintertime. It was a very rough river, and we had a whole bunch of you already told the story in boats. And I was the only boat that didn't capsize. Wow.
00:35:27
The only boat that didn't capsize. That's how rough the Spay River is. I want to mention that. Do you ever go fishing in the Spay? A lot of the people who work at our distillery, that's like all of their weekend activities.
00:35:39
Fly fishing in the spay. Absolutely. That's my next journey. Perfect. Sounds nice.
00:35:44
Yeah. Let's have a visit. Yeah. We're a beautiful part of Speyside called Destin, and we're right next to Glenn Fiddick, our kind of big sister whiskey. And we're kind of tucked away to the point where I've actually had folks say to me that they've been to Glenfiddick, and I'll be like, oh, you're right next to Balveni.
00:35:58
And people sometimes don't even know that they were right next door. Yeah. Right next went, you know, seven, eight years ago. Yes. And it's super tiny compared to Glyphidic.
00:36:11
Absolutely. The Valvini is very well, it's like comparing the White House and a small garage or something, but it is quite stark. But the product that has churned out from there is oh, yeah. Unbelievable. Beautiful.
00:36:27
Yeah. We're just trying to keep up with demand, so pretty much all we're trying to do at this moment is kind of stay ahead of things. But it's a good problem to have. And what's new? Is there anything new, innovative coming out for Balvini?
00:36:41
Yeah, so just a couple of months ago, we launched a new 16 year that I highly recommend called the French Oak Cask. So it's ex PINOTA sharant cask, a beautiful French dessert wine. So french limousine. Oak It's a beautiful golden almost like sunshine color really, really lovely. So that's been a fun one to finally have folks be able to try.
00:37:00
And it's a really cool one to have in warmer weather because it's quite light and bright and citrusy for Salvani. Oh, so it's a pinot de chave. Absolutely. Yeah. So that's one that we've really enjoyed letting folks finally be able to try, because I've been trying little iterations of it over years, and it's such a relief to finally be able to talk about it.
00:37:19
And what are you guys doing at Tales? What do you have going on? Well, I know William Grant because you're part of the William Grant portfolio. Always puts on these amazing parties. We were at the Monkey Shoulder party yesterday.
00:37:31
We interviewed Anna yesterday for our podcast and the portfolio party a couple days ago. Yeah, the portfolio party is always such a win. And it's just nice, too, to work for a company, even besides Balveni that has so many good brands. I mean Monkey Shoulder, milagro Hudson, Hendrix, Tullamore Dew. Yeah, just really, really killer lineup of brands for William Grant's sons.
00:37:52
And it's so rare as a Scotch whiskey to still be owned by the founding family six generations in. Now it's sadly very rare. I wish it wasn't so rare, but at least we are one of the ones still family owned. And they really hold us to a lot of the traditions of whiskey making, those old school kind of practices, while at the same time also really trusting David and Kelsey to experiment. So it's kind of this perfect staying in the past while also experimenting in the future.
00:38:18
Well, speaking of tradition, there's only one more thing we need to go with the Balvini, and that's a plate of haggis. Yes.
00:38:28
Tradition. Yeah. I love haggis. I'll pass, but I will not pass on the Balvini. And it's been a pleasure speaking with you, too, short.
00:38:37
Always. But, Naomi, thank you so much for joining us here on the podcast. Thank you for having me. Cheers.
00:38:46
There we are. Dad's, nuzzling up to me. Yes, I am, because we have another special guest here. Tamu Curtis. Wow.
00:38:53
Hi, Tamu. Hi. How exciting. And you got the memo? I got the memo.
00:38:58
This has been my signature look for a couple years.
00:39:03
Right. Did you get yours here? No, I didn't. Where did I get this? I've had it for a few years.
00:39:09
I don't even remember. Yeah, but this might. Easy to go put on a hat. Yeah. Love it.
00:39:15
I got mine at Macy's. That's where I got mine. Yeah. This is not brought to you by Macy's. Right.
00:39:21
This actually might have been Norsham's, if I'm mistaken, norsham's Rack, although you probably paid more than I did. And, Tamu, can you tell us a little bit about your offerings? Like, you have a lot happening. Just, like know, we do cocktail classes. We love bar gear, bar tools, products.
00:39:40
And you do it all. You do both of those. But Tamil has a place, a shop called The Cocktailery, which is a trendy bar shop, right? Yeah. So the cocktailery, it is in Charlote, North Carolina.
00:39:54
I opened in September of 2021. We call ourselves the Cocktail Supply and Beverage Lifestyle shop. So what I do is I cater to the at home mixologists. Our mission is to take the mystery out of mixology and make cocktails more approachable for the at home enthusiasts. So we have our retail offerings and then we also do our cocktail classes, which are our bread and butter.
00:40:17
So I'd been doing cocktail classes in the Charlote area probably since about 2016. So I would do pop up classes at bars, restaurants, people's homes, offices, wherever. And I just had been consistently do them. Over time, the following never waned. It just continued to grow.
00:40:39
And I, during the pandemic, went to the virtual space like everybody did and blew up. And blew up. Yeah, same with us. Yeah. And the hardest thing was, how do I monetize this?
00:40:52
Because all the bartenders are like sitting at home, like, giving out all this free content. And I'm like, I'm used to getting paid for teaching classes and I was like, I'm not going to do this until I can figure out how to monetize it. And so I was able to figure out how to do cocktail kits and send those off to people, send out bar tool sets. So that really opened me up really early on during the pandemic to really build a following and get a lot of clients. So I just started doing corporate classes.
00:41:16
And when the Pandemic was coming to an end, I was like, there's no way that I'm going to go back to lugging all of that equipment for cocktail classes. It was just getting a little bit tiring and overwhelming. And so I really had the vision that I wanted to create a whole 360 experience. I wanted to be immersive. So when you walk in the door, because it's for the at home bartender, I want you to feel like you're walking into somebody's living room and they're going to offer you a cocktail, right?
00:41:45
Yeah. It can be overwhelming for people. Also, there's syrups and bitters. We have probably about 50 or 60 types of different bitters and people don't know where to start. So we have a bitters tasting bar where they can come over and just get a little lesson as we go through tasting bitters.
00:42:00
They can take a class so they can learn how to make a cocktail, learn how to use those syrups. And hopefully after they have a couple of cocktails, they're a little buzed and they walk out the store and buy some more stuff. Wow, that sounds like a really sophisticated, innovative, state of the art operation. Yeah. I like to say that I want to become the sir la Ta of the cocktail industry.
00:42:22
Okay. So it's very much that model. But for me, when I was buying cocktail equipment, I'm going all over the place. I'm Amazon. I'm West Elm.
00:42:32
I'm Creighton Barrow. I'm Bed, Bath and beyond. Rest in peace.
00:42:39
And then people would take my classes and then they would go to Amazon and buy everything or they shake out of a Mason jar. And I felt like all of that should be in one place. So that's really what the concept of it is. And as I'm sure our executive assistant Gina can attest to about virtual classes, that during the pandemic, I mean, that kept us afloat. It kept the business going, and we were crazy busy doing that.
00:43:10
And that's died down. And we're back to in person. But yeah, in person classes are so cool. And being able to go to offices and do them there too, I mean, I really just love bringing people together in a social environment. Cocktails are social, right.
00:43:26
So you have people from all walks of life. We have people from all different ages, different backgrounds, and they sit around. We try to make it a very interactive space. They meet new people, they're talking, we're sharing cocktails, and we're all there learning. Right.
00:43:43
So nobody's here and nobody's there. And I wanted to create a space where people weren't afraid to ask questions. Sometimes you go to the bar and I see maybe a patron ask a bartender a question or they order something that's like a Cosmopolitan and the bartender kind of snickers at them or they're making jokes. And I really hated that. And I wanted to create a space where there is no bad question.
00:44:08
It's just an opportunity for education. So what we try to do is just take classic cocktails to give people the foundation on making cocktails, the elements in constructing a cocktail so that you are empowered to look in your pantry or refrigerator and make your own creation. Right. So I try to say we're not training bartenders. Right.
00:44:32
We're trying to empower people. Why do you want to use fresh citrus? When do you use your ice? How do you use your ice? How much ice?
00:44:38
Why do we use this glass versus this glass to make this cocktail? Very simple things that I think a lot of times people or bar industry professionals assume that everybody knows, but the at home person really just doesn't. Right. We really start with the basics. Like, this is a jigger and it helps us as bar industry people, especially bartenders, they'll come in and they'll know more and they won't feel completely lost.
00:45:07
Absolutely. And we'll be able to give them better hospitality. I agree.
00:45:15
It really just opens their eyes. And so they are asking for certain things when they're sitting down. Now they know what they want to order. They know what their palate preference is. So it does make it easier, probably for the bartender.
00:45:27
Yeah. And do you teach the classes yourself? I do. So I started teaching. Well, we have four instructors now, but when I first started, when I was doing the pop up classes, it was just me.
00:45:38
Interesting thing is I never worked behind the bar. So I kind of got immersed into the hospitality industry through a bar promotion I was doing. Got invited to a Hendrix Gin cocktail class. I thought it was super cool. I don't even know what I was drinking at home before then.
00:45:54
I think I was just drinking wine. And I wanted to create that experience for people who followed my tour. And I had different bartenders from around the city that would teach the classes. And then once I was empowered to make cocktails, I started teaching the classes because I felt like there was a different perspective I could give because I was the person on the other side of the bar. So I know what I wanted to learn and how I wanted to learn it.
00:46:20
So I started teaching the classes and that's the whole thing I tell people, I was like, listen, I was on this side of the table. It's very intimidating. You go to the bar and there's like rows and rows of liquor liqueur. And the bartenders are measuring things so carefully, they have the cool shake. And I was overwhelmed.
00:46:38
I was like, there's no way I could learn how to use all these bottles. But once I understood what a liqueur was, what a liquor know a sweetening, you know, when do I shake versus when do I stir, then it all so and that's kind know our perspective on teaching the classes. Cool. And for people who want to visit the store but they're not in charlote. You have an online presence.
00:47:04
Yes. So we have an online presence. We have an e commerce store. We ship everywhere. We have a great site.
00:47:11
I always like to know, I want to be able to compete with the major players because I see the brand growing in that way. Different locations. That's where I am now raising money to open more locations of the cocktailery. Oh, cool. Go into consumer products.
00:47:25
So we do carry some of our own proprietary bar products. But I want to create a bigger have more products, go into wholesale. I like to see our bar tools and bars and restaurants. Cocktail Kingdom is great. Barfly is great.
00:47:41
But I know where Barfly gets all their stuff.
00:47:46
That's kind of where I am. Is really hoping to grow the product side products are king. And I think as the brand grows and the awareness of the cocktail grows, then having the cocktail name on a bar tool might be cool. That's awesome. And what do you have going on at Tails?
00:48:02
Are you just kind of bopping around? I am bopping around the streets. I don't know if I'm coming or I'm going. This is my first ever. Yes, yes.
00:48:11
So it's really exciting. It's really exciting also to meet people that I follow online on Instagram and meet them in person. So I've seen a lot of rock stars out here. Thank you. Appreciate the it's been great talking to them.
00:48:30
Wait, rock stars? What rock stars? You know, bar, professional. Yeah, they're rock stars to me. Yeah, they are.
00:48:38
That's awesome. Temu, thank you so much for being able to come in here and to sit down with us. We really appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. This is really great.
00:48:49
We got something going on here. This is important. There's an ongoing relationship. Yeah, exactly. This is memorable.
00:48:57
Cheers. Thank you. And with one more interview to go, we headed over to the St. Pat's Irish Coffee House in the French Quarter to meet up with the Buskers. Woody Kane.
00:49:08
We're outside in this lovely courtyard. This is a switch from our normal interviews. We're out in the open and the beautiful sunny skies of New Orleans. It's hot. Yeah, but you know what?
00:49:19
It's not as hot as in past years, not as humid. It's really quite comfortable. Carrie, our executive producer, is making a really awful face about the heat right now. But what are we calling this? We're in the busker.
00:49:30
Irish whiskey courtyard. Pavilion. Pavilion. And we have Woody Kane over here. What a treat.
00:49:37
This is my friend. Listen, you know what? It's absolutely fantastic to see your face again. So it's great to see you. We just saw each other back in April at WSWA.
00:49:47
It was fantastic. A great time. Yeah. Look, we're absolutely delighted to be here at Tails. The busker is fantastic whiskey, well deserved of getting people to try it out.
00:49:57
So we're just delighted we got the opportunity to be able to get people here and get people to taste some good Irish whiskey. And of course, you guys being here, that's making it even more special. So thanks very much for coming, guys. Pleasure. Wardy.
00:50:08
Thank you. This is great. We have some expressions here, and I know that you wanted us to taste one. Can we get right into tasting? Is that okay?
00:50:18
Did I ever refuse a taste of whiskey? So of course we can. What we've got here has got a very special whiskey. It's not released yet. Okay.
00:50:26
It is a new evolution of what the Busker is going to be offering. You can even see by our bottle design has changed. We've got more prominence with Royal Oak Distillery right there on the bottle and nicely embossed, really tactile. This one here is at 46.3, our normal, or 44.3. This is a Pot still, which has seen some bourbon cask for three years.
00:50:48
And we stop it dead after three years. And then we put it into sherry cask for just one year and we leave it for that one year. Now, these casks we've heavily invested in. So we're really making something that's very, very special. And I thought, you know, what?
00:51:03
Seeing as you guys are a bit special as well, in many ways, we said we'd have a little taste of this together. Thank you very much. This is incredible. This is beautiful. Beautiful in the nose.
00:51:13
I get a fair amount of funk in the nose, which I really like. Yeah. But I get not I'm getting sherry in the nose, which I love. And I think that was a brilliant idea to use sherry casks. Oh, yeah.
00:51:27
We were talking about this earlier. You get that rancio, right? Yes. The rancio element that adds complexity and richness to the spirit, which I find most often in Cognac. And this is quite similar to that.
00:51:44
And also sherry, the term comes from Jerez in Spain. Yeah. And here at Tales of the Cocktail, you guys have a pretty hefty footprint. And I think it's great because this space right here, what are the things that you're focusing on here at Tails? Look, the whole key to this is about know, it's about getting people to really experience it.
00:52:03
Now, we have had said the Hawk, as he's known, and we've also had we've had him on the show. Fantastic guy. Fantastic guy. And we have as well as that with Jillian Vos as well. So they've really worked with the product and what they've done is they've brought some fantastic cocktails to life.
00:52:20
I mean, look, I always say I'm a kitchen cocktail guy. I open the press, whatever falls out goes in the glass, and I'm hoping to God it tastes good. But what you've got here is you've got that creativity, that spark of imagination that really comes with this mixology. And they've worked with the products and they've really worked well. Some of the amazing cocktails over the past few days with the busker, to be honest, throughout Tales, I mean, you guys have been going around as well.
00:52:45
There's some amazing spirits here, amazing people and some fantastic cocktails. And I had a question in my brain and I answered it myself. As I was asking that question to myself in my brain, it was a question to you, and you are the answer to that question, or you're part of that answer. Because in my mind, I thought, how do you stand out in a market or just as an Irish whiskey brand when there are quite a bit of Irish whiskey brands coming out there? You are part of that.
00:53:15
I mean, I think having someone like you, having a personality like yourself, really adds to the clout of the brand. Yeah, well, personality is a big thing. I mean, the only thing is you can have a personality, but you might not have fantastic liquid. We're lucky in a sense. The busker is absolutely amazing liquid.
00:53:32
You've tasted our next generation. But if we even go back one from this pot still to this pot still here, we have gotten word. I know the awards is tonight and I don't know if I should say it right now, but we're after winning Best Irish Pot Still for our Pot Still in the Busker. Thank you so much. It's great airing afterwards, so you would have already found out.
00:53:51
Oh, that's okay. Yeah, so I didn't know before this, so it's great. Can I pretend that I'm presenting you the award right now? Let's go for it. And the award for best pot still product irish whiskey.
00:54:04
The busker. And Mr. Woody Kane is accepting his prize. Guys, thank you so much. This is something that I didn't expect.
00:54:11
I'd like to thank everyone that drinks it, and I'd like to thank everyone who's going to drink it. Keep it going. I like it. Thanks so much. That's great.
00:54:21
So we tasted that. Are we tasting this? It'll give you a little bit of a difference because this is, let's say, just a pot still, and you can try the other one then.
00:54:32
So that what you're tasting there is the winning Pot still at Tails of Cocktail, and hopefully you can see why it's a winner. Can you see why? Oh, yeah. Lovely in the mouth. Delicious and beautifully balanced and very easy to drink and enjoy.
00:54:51
Yeah, it's lovely. And so we were saying before I saw you at WSWA, what are the other sort of initiatives that you're going for when it comes to growing the brand and getting the word out to the trade? Are you making a bit of a consumer push? I know that during the Pandemic, you were supporting bartenders. You helped support me as well because we were doing some influencer social media type of things, and I thought that was great.
00:55:20
No other brand was doing that at that time. Okay, I'll be honest. It's something that's just natural that we would do, because the life and soul of the liquid is in the people that both drink it and also serve it. So I think bartenders are a very important part when it comes to even trying to promote a whiskey. If you go into any bar, no matter what it is, and you go and you just talk to a manager or you talk to an owner, that person may not necessarily be behind the bar meeting facing the consumers.
00:55:50
It's the bartenders that are the life and soul of it. So that's why yeah, it's very important for us. So, look, we've got some initiatives coming up. We did the bar stool program, so we had that. We've been at Whiskey X.
00:56:01
We're here at Tails. So we're heavily investing on trying to get liquid to Lips, and we're also doing quite a lot of busker sessions. So we've got some fantastic guys. The guy here, Jasper, today, he's been playing all day long in the 1st Reel Entertainment. I don't know how he's lasted, but absolutely fantastic.
00:56:18
And it's just they're the people who have the passion and the drive to get out there, play some music and look, that's. What, we've got passion and drive as well. And we're trying to offer this quality out there. So we've got our full range and we've got our blend, which is a blend of all three of the other singles. And we also have this new one coming out, but the blend is a mix of grain, malt and pot still together.
00:56:42
What's unusual is it's the only Irish whiskey blend that has all three types of Irish whiskey in it coming from just one distillery. So every single drop is our own. And we're proud of that fact. We're proud of the quality, and it's what we like to push forward. And I think that's where the difference will come.
00:57:00
When you talk about being in what's becoming more of a cluttered category, I think it's about offering quality that Irish feel and what Ireland is really about. It is about hospitality, it's about fun, it's about excitement. So this is exactly what the busker offers when it comes to getting it out there in the market. That's awesome. Woody Kane, you're a true legend.
00:57:24
You're very influential in the spirits world, and we appreciate you taking the time, inviting us here and chatting with us. Thank you, Woody. Please continue with that Irish passion and drive. I'll tell you, I don't have any other choice. It's in me, so I'm only delighted to do it and it's so great to see it's great to see you again and great to meet you.
00:57:44
It's fantastic. And look, whatever you guys are going to do, it's going to be a success anyway, so keep it going. I think it's people like you getting the word out of what brands are doing as well is really driving it forward, too. So don't stop. Thank you.
00:58:00
Cheers.
00:58:04
We ended the 21st annual Tales of the Cocktail with Jonathan's second spirited event. A fantastic dinner. That's right. We've been doing these dinners for many years at Tails, and this year we collaborated again for the second year in a row with Chef Christina Quackenbush from Milkfish. This was a Filipino style cocktail dinner pairing at 1st Reel Entertainment, of course, with our good friend Abigail Gullo.
00:58:29
Our first dish was Gulf kinalao paired with what I call the entrada cocktail, followed by Lechon Bicol, accompanied by Yamada. All original cocktails, of course, with the Gonzalez Bias portfolio of Spanish products. Then we had the Guinatang Milkfish, which was paired with Duende. And finally, last but not least, the dessert. Ube flan cake, which paired with Boulevias And if anyone, of course, wants the recipes for this drink, we're going to include them in the show notes.
00:58:59
And not only was the food and drink amazing, but the event featured the Jaleo flamenco dancers and band. This spirited dinner was definitely a fantastic end to a wonderful week at Tales of the Cocktail.
00:59:18
That does it for today's show. If you enjoy what we do, please rate, review and subscribe to the podcast. You can also support the show with a small monthly donation to help sustain future episodes. Just click on the Donate button at the top of our website and choose your donation amount. To learn more about our guests, visit www.thecocktailgurupodcast.com or follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram or TikTok.
00:59:48
Thecocktail Guru podcast is produced by 1st Reel Entertainment and distributed by Eats Drinks TV, a service of the center for Culinary Culture, home of the Cocktail Collection, and is available via Anchor, Spotify, Apple, Google, Amazon and wherever you listen to your favorite shows.